The Triumph of Christianity

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by CharlesBHoff


Molly the The anti-islamist. There was no new strain it was than lies spead by than incompiant doctor who dislike the local native in the new world and to hide the spainish use of germ warfare in the new world on the native by speading smallpox by giving smallpox inflect blanket to the native on purpose something which your blias mind would approve of.

This is one of the most pure examples of genuine BS i have seen for long times. Eouropean doctors making up a covert story that would make KGB green in their faces just out of jealousy because they couldn't fake such a story ! Eorupean doctors joining into the cause of claiming the american natives to be the cause of a sickness that they already knew is just rediculous.

Your claim that there was a general policy about "germ warfare" is equally rediciulusly since noone had any clue about that kind of discease spread. It doesn't make it better that (as others has spoken) it was first quite a while later that some feeble (but quite effective) attempts was done in spreading diseases. Nonetheless, they didn't knew what they were doing and it has certainly nothing to do with modern B-warfare.

[Odin]

I think the "ideal" world population is between 300 million and 500 million, mainly concentrated in the temperate and subtropical parts of the world.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Odin
I think the "ideal" world population is between 300 million and 500 million, mainly concentrated in the temperate and subtropical parts of the world.

I agree

we need to "clean up" a lot of the world... get rid of like 5.5 billion or so people... let's start with Texas...

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by BlackCat


This is one of the most pure examples of genuine BS i have seen for long times. Eouropean doctors making up a covert story that would make KGB green in their faces just out of jealousy because they couldn't fake such a story ! Eorupean doctors joining into the cause of claiming the american natives to be the cause of a sickness that they already knew is just rediculous.

Your claim that there was a general policy about "germ warfare" is equally rediciulusly since noone had any clue about that kind of discease spread. It doesn't make it better that (as others has spoken) it was first quite a while later that some feeble (but quite effective) attempts was done in spreading diseases. Nonetheless, they didn't knew what they were doing and it has certainly nothing to do with modern B-warfare.

Europe was quite backward in medine, when a person die of than illness any illness they say he die of the plague. One doctor said spanish sailor that came back from the new world in 1492 brought back anew illness
Syphilis from the new world in the one spanish port. the other european docotor didnot believe that story but they have no way to prove it false either. Anyboby was able to see that blankets use by people who had smallpox gave other people smallpox who use they blanket. The Muslim doctor knew that smallpox was than illness that needed than human hort to survice and how it spead, they burn the blanket of people who die of smallpox as well as they clothing use long pole with hooks on it.

[Heresson]

Charles... If You are trying to prove Muslim world for some time was superior to western Christian one, of course. west of Europe was always backward. Even in Roman times, it were the eastern provinces that counted. The things simply didn't change later and that has little to do with religion.
And today, the Muslim world...

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by CharlesBHoff


Molly the The anti-islamist.

Damn. Should I have told my Muslim neighbour I was a great big closeted anti-Islamist when I gave evidence in the trial of the man who assaulted him and his friends outside my house?

Perhaps then he wouldn't have wanted to live next door to me, just a few doors up from the Islamic Centre, which I never cease to phone bomb threats to, or vandalize with rotting pigs' heads and splash with the blood of other unclean animals.

I should really never have attended my Muslim friend Shirin's sister's wedding, what with those big strips of bacon hanging off me, and perhaps I should not renew my membership to the Zionist-Satanic Conspiracy, do you think?


It might be nice to imagine that you'd actually credit me with some intelligence and with having done some research from the casual references in my post- like the one about knowing a forensic archaeologist for instance.

Perhaps if you did, it might have tipped you to the fact that I had more than just a vague idea of what I was writing about, and wasn't pursuing some fictitious anti-Islamic crusade.

"
Syphilis

"A mysterious epidemic, hitherto unknown, which had struck terror into all hearts by the rapidity of its spread, the ravages it made, and the apparent helplessness of the physicians to cure it."

A quote about AIDS? No. It's about the appearance of syphilis in the early 16th century. Despite the popular myth we now know syphilis was NOT brought back by Columbus and his libidinous crew after 1492. Syphilis had been endemic in Europe for millennia.

The evidence comes from pre-Columbian skeletons – such as those unearthed at an Augustinian friary in Hull (see BBC History) – and from a 14th century churchyard in Essex (see Secrets of the Dead) – which show the distinctive malformations of syphilis. In Hull, 60% of the excavated skeletons showed signs of syphilis. Other pre-Columbian skeletons with signs of syphilis have been found as far afield as Pompeii and Israel.

Syphilis existed in Europe prior to the 1490s but was unrecognised and in a form which was less virulent, and was confused with other diseases such as leprosy. The name 'syphilis' was first applied by Girolamo Fracastoro in 1530 from the name of a shepherd in a poem by Leonardo da Vinci. The syphilis bacterium – the Treponema microorganism – had been causing related diseases, like yaws or bejel, for thousands of years – on both sides of the Atlantic.

But in the late 15th/early 16th centuries, unique conditions favoured a mutation of the microorganism into a sexually transmitted disease.


Evolution of Syphilis towards sexual transmission
Infections are more pathogenic when they arrive in virgin populations – as was the case when other European diseases were introduced into the New World: small pox, typhoid, scarlet fever, influenza, dysentery, diphtheria, chicken pox and cholera. Pre-contact American Indian healers – with a system of medical treatment comparable to European physicians of the time (botanical antiseptics, syringes made from bird bones) – were completely overwhelmed by the assault. Many populations of native Americans were themselves decimated by syphilis in the 16th century – after the arrival of Europeans. An estimated 65 percent or more of American Indians died within a century.

Before the 15th century, a non-venereal treponomal organism existed in the Americas as a relatively harmless childhood disease, endemic in rural areas, and transmitted by skin contact between naked children. Taken back to European cities by the early mariners the disease subsequently mutated into a sexually transmitted disease in order to facilitate its survival in the colder, non-tropical climate. In Europe, the wearing of clothes, even in childhood, inhibited survival of the non-venereal strain whereas promiscuity in over-crowded port cities favoured the natural selection of an organism efficient at sexual transmission. The disease we know today as syphilis emerged. It was then re-exported to the Americas in its newer, deadlier form. "

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ruin.html

Try reading as well:

McNeil, W. (1976), Plagues and Peoples (Oxford: Blackwell) and Evolution of Infectious Disease:
Paul W. Ewald.

It's supposed to broaden, not narrow the mind.

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Damn. Should I have told my Muslim neighbour I was a great big closeted anti-Islamist when I gave evidence in the trial of the man who assaulted him and his friends outside my house?

Perhaps then he wouldn't have wanted to live next door to me, just a few doors up from the Islamic Centre, which I never cease to phone bomb threats to, or vandalize with rotting pigs' heads and splash with the blood of other unclean animals.

I should really never have attended my Muslim friend Shirin's sister's wedding, what with those big strips of bacon hanging off me, and perhaps I should not renew my membership to the Zionist-Satanic Conspiracy, do you think?


It might be nice to imagine that you'd actually credit me with some intelligence and with having done some research from the casual references in my post- like the one about knowing a forensic archaeologist for instance.

Perhaps if you did, it might have tipped you to the fact that I had more than just a vague idea of what I was writing about, and wasn't pursuing some fictitious anti-Islamic crusade.

"
Syphilis

"A mysterious epidemic, hitherto unknown, which had struck terror into all hearts by the rapidity of its spread, the ravages it made, and the apparent helplessness of the physicians to cure it."

A quote about AIDS? No. It's about the appearance of syphilis in the early 16th century. Despite the popular myth we now know syphilis was NOT brought back by Columbus and his libidinous crew after 1492. Syphilis had been endemic in Europe for millennia.

The evidence comes from pre-Columbian skeletons – such as those unearthed at an Augustinian friary in Hull (see BBC History) – and from a 14th century churchyard in Essex (see Secrets of the Dead) – which show the distinctive malformations of syphilis. In Hull, 60% of the excavated skeletons showed signs of syphilis. Other pre-Columbian skeletons with signs of syphilis have been found as far afield as Pompeii and Israel.

Syphilis existed in Europe prior to the 1490s but was unrecognised and in a form which was less virulent, and was confused with other diseases such as leprosy. The name 'syphilis' was first applied by Girolamo Fracastoro in 1530 from the name of a shepherd in a poem by Leonardo da Vinci. The syphilis bacterium – the Treponema microorganism – had been causing related diseases, like yaws or bejel, for thousands of years – on both sides of the Atlantic.

But in the late 15th/early 16th centuries, unique conditions favoured a mutation of the microorganism into a sexually transmitted disease.


Evolution of Syphilis towards sexual transmission
Infections are more pathogenic when they arrive in virgin populations – as was the case when other European diseases were introduced into the New World: small pox, typhoid, scarlet fever, influenza, dysentery, diphtheria, chicken pox and cholera. Pre-contact American Indian healers – with a system of medical treatment comparable to European physicians of the time (botanical antiseptics, syringes made from bird bones) – were completely overwhelmed by the assault. Many populations of native Americans were themselves decimated by syphilis in the 16th century – after the arrival of Europeans. An estimated 65 percent or more of American Indians died within a century.

Before the 15th century, a non-venereal treponomal organism existed in the Americas as a relatively harmless childhood disease, endemic in rural areas, and transmitted by skin contact between naked children. Taken back to European cities by the early mariners the disease subsequently mutated into a sexually transmitted disease in order to facilitate its survival in the colder, non-tropical climate. In Europe, the wearing of clothes, even in childhood, inhibited survival of the non-venereal strain whereas promiscuity in over-crowded port cities favoured the natural selection of an organism efficient at sexual transmission. The disease we know today as syphilis emerged. It was then re-exported to the Americas in its newer, deadlier form. "

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ruin.html

Try reading as well:

McNeil, W. (1976), Plagues and Peoples (Oxford: Blackwell) and Evolution of Infectious Disease:
Paul W. Ewald.

It's supposed to broaden, not narrow the mind.

Euporean medine didnot have name for the many illness, they where either classity as legorcy or plague which doesnot help in treatment. The ancient roman and greek wrote about the sexualy traner illness call Syphilis which was spead by loose sexuality activality. Muslim doctor knew of Syphilis and how it spead and how to stop it spead as the old roman and greek knew how to stop it spead by enforcement of mortal behavior
and public educuration. Syphilis underwent many mutralion in it history.

Syphili is comeing back with than africian sexual tranfer illness which make it easyier for other sexual illness like Syphili to infect people it isnot AIDS this illness date back thousand's of years. AIDS is possible than old illness which came back to haunt man, they found proof
that ahandfull of people in america die from AIDS in the 1920's by doing tested on they bobies which where in airtight coffin of metal.

[CharlesBHoff]

America isnot the leader in techincal anymore in fact american is calling behind. First Christian in America are pushing antiDarwinish in science educudrate in america public school by takeing over school boards. They are puching for = time for creation science which is the same old old testisom creation myth in the bibble.

Islam have no problem with Darwin Theory of evolution as the Koran imply that creation of the entire Univers took place over than very long time than that animals and plants change over time also.

The Koran have no problen with the big bang theory as the arabic word use than the passage that said how Alliah created the whole universe have 5 different shade of meaning dependence on context. Islanish scholares for along time disagree on which shade of meaning was meanth, they now know the shade of meaning meant was the creation of the universe from nothing the shade of meaning they didnot think of useing fit like in with other part of the Koran. The passage actural said Alliah created everything from nothing.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by CharlesBHoff


Euporean medine didnot have name for the many illness, they where either classity as legorcy or plague which doesnot help in treatment. The ancient roman and greek wrote about the sexualy traner illness call Syphilis which was spead by loose sexuality activality. Muslim doctor knew of Syphilis and how it spead and how to stop it spead as the old roman and greek knew how to stop it spead by enforcement of mortal behavior
and public educuration. Syphilis underwent many mutralion in it history.

Syphili is comeing back with than africian sexual tranfer illness which make it easyier for other sexual illness like Syphili to infect people it isnot AIDS this illness date back thousand's of years. AIDS is possible than old illness which came back to haunt man, they found proof
that ahandfull of people in america die from AIDS in the 1920's by doing tested on they bobies which where in airtight coffin of metal.

So that counts as an apology for erroneously calling me an anti-Islamist does it?

And stow the 'Islam and Muslims knew everything about medicine' crap. It's inaccurate and unhistorical.

'Syphilis underwent many mutralion in it history.'

'There was no new strain it was than lies spead by than incompiant doctor who dislike the local native in the new world and to hide the spainish use of germ warfare in the new world ...'

CharlesBHave



So it underwent many mutations, but there was no new strain..... I'm sorry, I appear to have lost the special keyring decoder for this meeting of the Anti-Islamist Historical Epidemiology Paradox Club.


"

Pinta is a treponemal disease resulting from direct inoculation of the organism, Treponema carateum, usually through broken skin. It is endemic in Central and South America.

Locally there is a primary lesion resembling eczema, with regional lymphadenopathy. After some months secondary scaly lesions occur, which can resemble psoriasis.

Serologically this condition cannot be distinguished from syphilis. The organisms can be seen in dark field examination of skin scrapings or lymph nodes.

Treatment is with penicillin. "

http://www.gpnotebook.com/cache/-2087059392.htm

Treponema pertenue: known also as yaws- non-venereal, found in sub-Saharan Africa and parts of the tropics, thought to have made its way to the Americas with the slave trade. Known to the Christian and Islamic world before the Spanish landed in the Americas.

Treponema pallidum: venereal syphilis, known to the Islamic and Christian world.

Treponema carateum- or Pinta- present in the Americas from Cuba to Mexico, through Central America and down to the Amazon Basin. Not venereal.

Treponema pallidum II- Bejel- another Old World disease, now mostly seen in sub-Saharan West Africa. Not venereal

Now what do you think links all four diseases, Charley Farley? Could it possibly be the treponema spirochaete ?

Just try to think what might happen if Old World treponema pallidum meets New World treponema carateum in a virgin population- two very similar strains of the same disease, one spread by skin to skin contact, the other primarily by sexual intercourse, both characterized by deep lesions in the skin.

Or on the other hand, just carry on telling us how wonderfully scientifically advanced Mediaeval Islam was, and how it went on to be the basis for the magnificent Islamic Empire in the Americas, sub-Saharan Africa, South-East Asia and Oceania, how the Cordoban Caliphate landed a man on the moon in 1588 and Ibn Einstein discovered relativity in 1745.

I've a taste for alternate realities, but I try to limit myself to reading them, not living in one.

[Straybow]

@ CBH

I can't believe I read all that...

I read an article about a comprehensive study of pre and post Columbian population. The supposed "65% mortality" due to European disease was confined to a few tribes on the seaboard. The Great Lakes populations remained stable throughout the era until warfare and other direct competition for land caused their collapse. Assimilation was as much a cause of decline as disease.

In the Great Plains and the West there was little impact of European disease until the populations were confined to reservations.

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by molly bloom


So that counts as an apology for erroneously calling me an anti-Islamist does it?

And stow the 'Islam and Muslims knew everything about medicine' crap. It's inaccurate and unhistorical.

'Syphilis underwent many mutralion in it history.'

'There was no new strain it was than lies spead by than incompiant doctor who dislike the local native in the new world and to hide the spainish use of germ warfare in the new world ...'

CharlesBHave



So it underwent many mutations, but there was no new strain..... I'm sorry, I appear to have lost the special keyring decoder for this meeting of the Anti-Islamist Historical Epidemiology Paradox Club.


"

Pinta is a treponemal disease resulting from direct inoculation of the organism, Treponema carateum, usually through broken skin. It is endemic in Central and South America.

Locally there is a primary lesion resembling eczema, with regional lymphadenopathy. After some months secondary scaly lesions occur, which can resemble psoriasis.

Serologically this condition cannot be distinguished from syphilis. The organisms can be seen in dark field examination of skin scrapings or lymph nodes.

Treatment is with penicillin. "

http://www.gpnotebook.com/cache/-2087059392.htm

Treponema pertenue: known also as yaws- non-venereal, found in sub-Saharan Africa and parts of the tropics, thought to have made its way to the Americas with the slave trade. Known to the Christian and Islamic world before the Spanish landed in the Americas.

Treponema pallidum: venereal syphilis, known to the Islamic and Christian world.

Treponema carateum- or Pinta- present in the Americas from Cuba to Mexico, through Central America and down to the Amazon Basin. Not venereal.

Treponema pallidum II- Bejel- another Old World disease, now mostly seen in sub-Saharan West Africa. Not venereal

Now what do you think links all four diseases, Charley Farley? Could it possibly be the treponema spirochaete ?

Just try to think what might happen if Old World treponema pallidum meets New World treponema carateum in a virgin population- two very similar strains of the same disease, one spread by skin to skin contact, the other primarily by sexual intercourse, both characterized by deep lesions in the skin.

Or on the other hand, just carry on telling us how wonderfully scientifically advanced Mediaeval Islam was, and how it went on to be the basis for the magnificent Islamic Empire in the Americas, sub-Saharan Africa, South-East Asia and Oceania, how the Cordoban Caliphate landed a man on the moon in 1588 and Ibn Einstein discovered relativity in 1745.

I've a taste for alternate realities, but I try to limit myself to reading them, not living in one.

The sexual tranfer illness fropm africe isnot relate to syphilis at all but make it earier for syphilis and other sexual tranfer illness to infect them. Before 1960's only black people in america got this illness, since the 1960's white people are geting also now there is no treatment that cure this illness. Pecillin and other antibio are now ineffected against syphilis and other sexual tranfer illness, there are other older drugs that still work it given early enought before syphilis and other sexual tranfer illness get establic too deeply into the boby. For syphilis it the old drugs are taken before 1 week past inflection there is than 90% change of cure.

The Roman stop the spead of syphilis by killing the people who have it and burning their bodies and home and personal effect, the ancient greek did the same also, not all greek city where like Atenia where man have homosexual sex. The muslim didnot allow people who have syphilis to mix with the normal population or have sex with uninfected people. These methord willnot worked today as than population densily threshold was pass which make stopping syphilis spead along sexual acticaly people inpossible. Plus how do we know it America Biowarfare Department have not play around with syphilis an change it, mostly AIDS was change by america biowarfare department and release somehow in Africa.

[CharlesBHoff]

Europe in the darkage and medival peroid have loose sexural behaviour going on like whoreing, Nuns have sex and getting pregant, morks haveing sexual relation which make it possible for syphilis to appear and spead thoughtout europe, not all people in europe got syplilis at all. Then came the 15th and 16th century where sexual mortal really got looseen an syphilis grew even more. More america soilder where dishorald discharge for sexual tranfer illness than anything also.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by CharlesBHoff


The sexual tranfer illness fropm africe isnot relate to syphilis at all but make it earier for syphilis and other sexual tranfer illness to infect them. Before 1960's only black people in america got this illness, since the 1960's white people are geting also now there is no treatment that cure this illness.

The Roman stop the spead of syphilis by killing the people who have it and burning their bodies and home and personal effect, the ancient greek did the same also, not all greek city where like Atenia where man have homosexual sex. The muslim didnot allow people who have syphilis to mix with the normal population or have sex with uninfected people.

And nary a single assertion backed with facts or evidence in the whole logorrhoeic rush.

Do tell us all how previously unknown early Islamic advances in microscopy (well before the 17th Century Dutch pioneers) enabled them to tell the difference between syphilis and any other disease that gave rise to sores or ulcers.

Or enabled them to tell which children might have been born with congenital syphilis.

Let's have a look at some early Muslim responses to illness, shall we ?

" When you learn that epidemic disease exists in a country, do not go there; but if it breaks out in the country where you are, do not leave."


" He who dies of epidemic disease is a martyr."

Well that one has a familiar ring to it....


" It is a punishment that God inflicts on whom he wills, but He has granted a modicum of clemency with respect to Believers (i.e., Muslims) . "

from Muhammad ibn Isma'il al-Bukhari Sahih, 'Les Traditions Islamiques', trans. O. Houdas, Publications l'ecole des langues orientales vivantes, 4th series, VI (Paris, 1914) Titre lxxxvi, 'De la Medicine', chs. 30, 31


Let's hear from the Ottoman Sultan responding to a request from the Austrian Emperor's ambassador to Istanbul to change his residence because plague had broken out in the house assigned to him:

" Is not the plague in my own palace, yet I do not think of moving? "

from Ogier Ghislain de Busbecq, 'Travels in Turkey' publ. London 1744, p.228

Let's hear from CharlesBSure :

Muslims are moral and don't have the diseases of immoral filthy Christian Westerners.

Islam discovered everything including the wheel.

A rough approximation of your views, but reasonably accurate, I'd say....


I think that about sums up your position so far....

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by CharlesBHoff
Europe in the darkage and medival peroid have loose sexural behaviour going on like whoreing, Nuns have sex and getting pregant, morks haveing sexual relation which make it possible for syphilis to appear and spead thoughtout europe,

Ah, I see. So in the incredibly superior civilization of Islam, everything was clean, and moral, and wonderful.

Shame about all those slaves, concubines, civil wars, slave revolts and epidemics then. Oh and of course, no Muslim man would ever have had sex with anyone other than one of his four (possible) wives or concubines...

"In the latter half of the 16th century, Islamic medicine then became receptive to some of the ideas, techniques, and drug therapies developing in Europe.

Early modern European influence can first be seen in the earliest Islamic treatise on syphilis. This was written by `Imad al-Din Mas`ud Shirazi, a physician at the hospital in Mashhad in northeast Iran. In his Persian treatise on syphilis written in 1569 (977 H), he followed the European practice of advocating for its treatment the use of China Root (Chub-chini), the rhizome of an Old World species of Smilax found in eastern Asia. This new drug for treating a new disease was rapidly incorporated into Arabic medical writings. For example, Da'ud al-Antaki, a Syrian physician who died in 1599 (1008 H), included a similar description of syphilis and China Root in his Arabic medical encyclopedia. Da'ud al-Antaki also relied heavily upon medieval Islamic writers and earlier Greek sources, for which he learned Greek so as to study them directly. "

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/islamic_medical/islamic_14.html

And please don't send me any further private messages about your conspiracy theory that H.I.V. is a bioweapon prepared by the Israelis and the Americans. It's stupid, offensive and inaccurate, and as usual backed up only by your wishful thinking.

[CharlesBHoff]

Molly Israel and America did manufactor AIDS as than Bioweapon. Than Canadain newpaper is now reporting that than assly hearing for than america marine who derest his unit when order to go to Iraq, and former marine staff sergeant said to the panel member "That US Soldier in Iraq routinely murdered unarmed woman and children and murdered other Iraqis in violation of the Four Holy Genvas Treaties which form the basic of all International law. This show that america legal system is broken. When the Great Satan America is finely defeat the Islamist World will have the right to setup than special court to try all america soilder and government employee as well as all private companies that have employee there for crime against Islam under Islamist legal system, this will include all Fox New employee who support Bush illegal war by flamely the America people against Islam, all neocom in america.