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  • #16
    Yeah, che is right, Cabinet positions are not set out in the Constitution. The President can tell his Cabinet members to do whatever. The only problems with having a Vice-President actually BE a cabinet member is that they must get confirmed by the Senate. However, having SecDef and SecState report directly to the Veep is no problem... AFAIK.
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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    • #17
      Originally posted by chegitz guevara
      Kerry's job was to show he could be a more effective Commander-in-Chief. He failed, that's why he lost.
      Kerry should be happy that that the news did not come out before the election that he wanted to delegate the job of commander-in-chief to McCain.
      'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
      G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

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      • #18
        Has a President in war time ever lost an election?
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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        • #19
          LBJ would have lost, had he run, don't you think?

          -Arrian
          grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

          The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
            just like the Dems need space-cadet liberals...
            "Space-cadet Liberals," so that's what the technical term is for the Democratic base. It makes sense now.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by The diplomat
              Kerry should be happy that that the news did not come out before the election that he wanted to delegate the job of commander-in-chief to McCain.
              It wouldn't be the first time a Dem Prez had a GOP SecDef. IIRC, there were rumors circulating about this for some time, actually. I don't think it would havve mattered one whit had it been confirmed before the election. Kerry lost on the military question and Bush won on gay marriage.
              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Arrian
                LBJ would have lost, had he run, don't you think?

                -Arrian
                Probably, but that war had been fubar for several years, while Bush has only had a year to screw up in Iraq. What surprises me is that pepole thought he was better on terrorism when A) 9/11 happened on his watch, B) He let bin Laden escape in Tora Bora so he could move troops to Kuwait, C) the missing munitions. I doubt Mussolini could have done worse.
                Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                • #23
                  I think supporting the gay marriage ban would have been important to getting support for Kerry in some states. I remember that the Christian community (including Pat Robertson) was very excited about President Carter in 1976. I think the Democrates need a candidate that does not support 100% two of the social planks of the platform...abortion and gay rights. It would also have to be unambiguous. Not "I'm against abortion, but I'm pro-choice." That person would have to support a ban on late term abortion or something similar.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by chegitz guevara
                    What surprises me is that pepole thought he was better on terrorism when A) 9/11 happened on his watch, B) He let bin Laden escape in Tora Bora so he could move troops to Kuwait, C) the missing munitions.
                    This points to another reason why Kerry lost. The Kerry camp kept assuming that All Americans (or at least a significant majority) would "see the light" and blame Bush for A,B and C. They were wrong. A majority don't blame Bush for 9-11 since it happened only 9 months into his presidency and there had been a weak anti-terror policy prior to Bush. A majority of Americans don't think Bush let Bin Laden escape because they know that we did not outsource the job since we had hundreds of special forces hunting Bin Laden in Tora Bora. And a majority of Americans don't blame Bush for the missing ammo because they know that our troops have successfully destroyed the vast majority of ammo found and that the missing ammo was probably gone prior to our arrival.

                    Now this may be hard for Dems to understand. You may think Americans are idiots or ignorant if they don't think Bush is incompetent on Iraq and the terrorism. Even if they are stupid or ignorant, it does not change the fact that is how they feel!
                    'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
                    G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by The diplomat
                      A majority don't blame Bush for ...
                      That's because you're gullible and believe anything Rush tells you.
                      Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Drake Tungsten


                        When did I say that? Of course the Republicans need the backing of religious conservatives to win elections, just like the Dems need space-cadet liberals...

                        I have a news flash for you, though. Not all religious conservatives vote on the issue of gay marriage. And not all opponents of gay marriage voted for Bush. I think I'll maintain my skepticism until I see some actual evidence for this meme as opposed to vague excuse-making...
                        Oh, I see you , as always, chose ignorance when the simple numbers are staring you in the face. Of course not all opponents of the Gay marriage ban voted for Bush, but one party has a ban as part of their platform, the other does not- guess which is which, genius.
                        If you don't like reality, change it! me
                        "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                        "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                        "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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                        • #27
                          As I understand it, Kerry got the vote of a full one-third of the pro-ban voters in Ohio.
                          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by GePap
                            but one party has a ban as part of their platform, the other does not- guess which is which, genius.
                            I'm guessing the party that won had the ban?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DanS
                              As I understand it, Kerry got the vote of a full one-third of the pro-ban voters in Ohio.
                              Yes, a third.

                              Vs. Two thirds for Bush. Given that the difference more than accounts for the difference in victory- lets guess which party owes it's power to this group as a whole?
                              If you don't like reality, change it! me
                              "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                              "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                              "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by chegitz guevara
                                That's because you're gullible and believe anything Rush tells you.
                                uh no, but moving on...

                                My point is that the Dems can say that Americans are idiots, ignorant, gullible for agreeing with Bush on Iraq. You can wonder all you want, "why don't Americans see things our way? Why don't they see that Bush is incompetent, dangerous, foolish etc?".

                                It does not change the fact that a lot of Americans do support Bush on Iraq and the war on terror despite all the Dems claims that "Bush misled" and "Bush is incompetent".
                                'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
                                G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

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