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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Sherman's March to the Sea
Sherman's March to the Sea
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Sherman = Bastard."I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003 -
Then I have to question your definition of effectiveness in this case because the uselessly destructive nature (by Sherman's own measure) of the March set back the long term goals of the Americans as stated by Lincoln and the war would have been won without it.Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Sherman's March to the Sea,
Considering how effective firebombing Dresden, most every other Japanese city were at achieving any real military result I don't really see how we can say two examples proves the opposite of the sorry trend the evidence shows.Hiroshima, Nagasaki...I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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and MLK?Originally posted by MrFun
Nonviolent change is not new.
Have you heard of this guy named Ghandi?
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)Comment
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Then I have to question your definition of effectiveness in this case because the uselessly destructive nature (by Sherman's own measure) of the March set back the long term goals of the Americans as stated by Lincoln and the war would have been won without it.
I believe that the war was ended quicker by destroying the South and bringing it to its knees. Perhaps the war would have been won later, but it was won quicker by the March.
Considering how effective firebombing Dresden, most every other Japanese city were at achieving any real military result I don't really see how we can say two examples proves the opposite of the sorry trend the evidence shows.
It weakened resolve. It was to get the civilians to back down. To get them to stop. It didn't work in Germany (though we didn't do it nearly as much and the Russians wanted Berlin), but it did in Japan. The atomic bombs just did it quicker.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.â€
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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Originally posted by Vince278
and MLK?
Who was inspired by Ghandi.
A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.Comment
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Yes, and Sherman and his whole army infiltrated Atlanta in civilian clothes, yes?Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Palestinian terror groups are civilians? I think you can make a case that they are a quasi-state actor. They definetly represent a particular nation, some of which may not be realized yet as a state (like ETA in Basque country or Chechens).
As for targetting civilians? The American Civil War, WW2, and Algeria shows that it can work pretty well.
Is there a reason why soldiers who fight the enemy out of uniform are shot?(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.Comment
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Area bombing did nothing to weaken resolve. That was widely studied and is why area bombing has been discarded as a tactic with any strategic value, after bombers were imagined by some in the 20's and 30's as being the ultimate weapon.Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
It weakened resolve. It was to get the civilians to back down. To get them to stop. It didn't work in Germany (though we didn't do it nearly as much and the Russians wanted Berlin), but it did in Japan. The atomic bombs just did it quicker.
The atomic bombs would have had about the same effect on the Japanese population. That being zero.(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.Comment
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why is this thread still topped?
old news.Comment
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And quicly getting off topic as well.Originally posted by Dissident
why is this thread still topped?
old news."I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003Comment
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To the extent Sherman disrupted ability to supply confederate armies, yes. This was a military campaign of strategic interdiction. To the extent that this created widespread despair and weakened southern resolve to fight, by no means.Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Sherman's March to the Sea, Hiroshima, Nagasaki...
Hiroshima, Nagasaki, we in America would like to think this was THE defining event that forced Japan to surrender. However it is also just as likely that the declaration of war and rapid advances made by the Soviets in the China theatre let the emporer know the gig was up. I think it more likely the combination of the two. But in of itself ineffective without boots on the ground threats."Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.†- Jimmy CarterComment
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There was this guy about 2000 thousand years ago that when faced with a choice to fight with violent means chose to instead become a martyr sacrifice.Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Gandhi was around in the last 50 years. That's pretty damned new in the history of human civilization."Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.†- Jimmy CarterComment
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Given that both sides in WW2 "targetted civilians", but the germans far, far more than the Americans, is that really evidence of much? Is there a side that could have won showing that targetting civilians doesn't work well?[SIZE=1]
As for targetting civilians? The American Civil War, WW2, and Algeria shows that it can work pretty well."I read a book twice as fast as anybody else. First, I read the beginning, and then I read the ending, and then I start in the middle and read toward whatever end I like best." - Gracie AllenComment
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You guys she read the previous posts. The reference of nonviolent social change is talking about Ghandi and MLK.Originally posted by Vince278
and MLK?What can make a nigga wanna fight a whole night club/Figure that he ought to maybe be a pimp simply 'cause he don't like love/What can make a nigga wanna achy, break all rules/In a book when it took a lot to get you hooked up to this volume/
What can make a nigga wanna loose all faith in/Anything that he can't feel through his chest wit sensationComment
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My hometown was burned down as a part of civillian targeting to reduce/eliminate the capability of the enemy to continue to fight. So was carthage. I would have to say that violence has solved a lot more than non-violence.What can make a nigga wanna fight a whole night club/Figure that he ought to maybe be a pimp simply 'cause he don't like love/What can make a nigga wanna achy, break all rules/In a book when it took a lot to get you hooked up to this volume/
What can make a nigga wanna loose all faith in/Anything that he can't feel through his chest wit sensationComment
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It's also strange that people who support violent measures to resolve comflicts should expect others to attempt nonviolence.What can make a nigga wanna fight a whole night club/Figure that he ought to maybe be a pimp simply 'cause he don't like love/What can make a nigga wanna achy, break all rules/In a book when it took a lot to get you hooked up to this volume/
What can make a nigga wanna loose all faith in/Anything that he can't feel through his chest wit sensationComment
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