Arafat Dead...

[Drake Tungsten]

They kinda brought their expulsion from Jordan on themselves...

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Azazel
What did you expect? that Israel would start the babymunching, as soon as dear leader arafat isn't there to protect the palestinians?

Nah, I expected Israel not to be discreet as it supported its favourite candidate. I also feared Israel would rush some policy that would bring more unstability to Palestine. I'm glad it didn't happen.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Nah, I expected Israel not to be discreet as it supported its favourite candidate. I also feared Israel would rush some policy that would bring more unstability to Palestine. I'm glad it didn't happen.

Sharon gets to win with both sides of the Israel electorate. To the center and left, he's being discrete, and pragmatic, and letting the Pals decide their own future. To the right, hes not showing undue confidence in Abu Mazen, whom the Israeli far right views as tainted by his past support of terrorism, little better than Arafat.

[Pax]

Originally posted by Oerdin


I'd have to age with Ned. Look at the population avantage the Arabs have, the economic advatage, the energy production advantage, the advantage in GDP, the advantage, in steel production, the advantage in agricultural output, the advantage in just about everything you can think of. Only a fool would say Israel is the underdog.

Israel likely only survived because they were given access to American, weapons, training, supplies, finance, and foreign Aid. Other wise the Arabs would have killed every Jew in Israel long ago just as they killed or exiled every Jew in every other part of the Middle East. In the whole Arab world Morrocco is the only country which hasn't expelled their Jews.

Everything you just listed makes the arabs underdogs not isreal. It's not amazing that she has survived with the support of the U.S. and a veto in the security council. what world are you living on. The U.S. just demonstrated the ability to stomp any two middle eastern countries at will. Isreal has carried out preemptive attacks on all regional arab powers. They are basically unchallenged at this point. Hello!

[Pax]

Originally posted by notyoueither
But they don't. I don't recall the reformed Mandela being labeled the bad guy in world opinion. I wasn't around then, but I don't think Ghandi or MLK Jr., were labeled as bad guys in world opinion. But then again, they didn't have anthing to do with civies murdering other civies for their cause. That might have something to do with it.

NYE, most change comes about through violence. The situation of conquest of Ireland, Africa, and india all came about through violence. The idea of nonviolent social change is a new one on the world stage and not normally practiced. Violence is the normal way conflicts get resolved. Check the history books!!
The civil rights movement was a movement that involved a lot of blood being spilled and put the U.S. in a situation that forced a change through the threat of violence as well as the boycotts.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Pax
Everything you just listed makes the arabs underdogs not isreal. It's not amazing that she has survived with the support of the U.S. and a veto in the security council. what world are you living on. The U.S. just demonstrated the ability to stomp any two middle eastern countries at will. Isreal has carried out preemptive attacks on all regional arab powers. They are basically unchallenged at this point. Hello!

PAX, in a way you are right. With US support, the Arabs actually pose no immediate threat to Israel. But without US support, I hope you would agree that Israel would be the underdog.

[Ned]

Which is why the Arabs and their allies argue for a more "balanced" US approach, because they know that a balanced US approach to Israel actually would tip the power balance decisively in the Arab's favor.

[MOBIUS]

After all this time I'm sure they can wait another 20 years - about the time when the arab citizens inside Israel outnumber the Jewish ones...

That is assuming Israel is a proper equal rights democracy...

[Vince278]

Originally posted by germanos
Since this is an Arafat thread, I do want to point out that Palestinians have seen indiscriminate purges from both Jordan and Kuwait. They weren't particularly welcome in Lebanon neither.

I just take into consideration what they did to Jordan, Lebanon, and Kuwait.

(As for Syria, my copy of the Koran is a Damascus printing from the early 80's. )

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Pax
NYE, most change comes about through violence. The situation of conquest of Ireland, Africa, and india all came about through violence. The idea of nonviolent social change is a new one on the world stage and not normally practiced. Violence is the normal way conflicts get resolved. Check the history books!!
The civil rights movement was a movement that involved a lot of blood being spilled and put the U.S. in a situation that forced a change through the threat of violence as well as the boycotts.

Nonviolent change is not new.


Have you heard of this guy named Ghandi?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Gandhi was around in the last 50 years. That's pretty damned new in the history of human civilization.

[notyoueither]

Civies targeting other civies to bring about political change is also fairly new. Which model has been more successful in the last 50 years?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Palestinian terror groups are civilians? I think you can make a case that they are a quasi-state actor. They definetly represent a particular nation, some of which may not be realized yet as a state (like ETA in Basque country or Chechens).

As for targetting civilians? The American Civil War, WW2, and Algeria shows that it can work pretty well.

[DinoDoc]

How exactly do the American Civil War and WW2 advance your case?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Sherman's March to the Sea, Hiroshima, Nagasaki...