Arafat Dead...

[Ned]

PAX, there is good evidence that Arafat continued to authorize terror attacks against Israel despite condemning them in public. He never really agreed that Israel had a right to exist. He never tried to suppress terror groups operating from within Palestine. He rejected a peace deal everyone outside Palestine seems to believe was more than fair.

This man originated Arab terrorism and conducted it against both Israel and fellow Arabs for 40 years. He was not a man of peace even though at times he could pretend to be such a man when it was to his advantage.

Palestine needs democracy and a leadership committed to their welfare, not just lining their own pockets as did Arafat.

[Pax]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I love how you justify the deliberate murder of women and children on the altar of your own ideaology and get insulted at us for calling you on it. The fact is that terrorism isn't working, costs the Palestinians many would be supporters, and is against thier long term interests by delaying the very thing they seek to acomplish as they blow up a bus of school kids.

I'm not justifying terrorism. Terrorism is not my ideology. Justice and equality is what I believe in. I believe that denying people water, fertile land, equal rights, and etc is murder.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Pax
I'm not justifying terrorism. Terrorism is not my ideology. Justice and equality is what I believe in. I believe that denying people water, fertile land, equal rights, and etc is murder.

I dont own any fertile land. I insist that all those who do be prosecuted for my murder, immediately.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Pax
I'm not justifying terrorism.

Actually you are. Your self-righteous diatribe about the evils inflicted on South African blacks in response to a condemnation of the use of terrorism was very much a justification for the practice.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by GePap




Washington ordered Sullivan to campaign accross Indian country, and Sullivan burned down 40 villages- since Washington gave the orders for the campaign, he is complicit in the outcomes. its pretty simple.

Not as simple as you would like. The campaign was to eliminate the war making capability of the Iriquois and was a meeting of two armies Sullivan vs. Butler & Banks. When did Arafat ever accomplish this or even set this out as a goal? As for the 40 plus settlements burned, when has there ever been warfare that has not also targetted the war making capabilites of the armed nations. Certainly this has not been an approach taken by Arafat.

Also, in the burning of the settlements there is no recorded record of actual civilian deaths although one would be naive to think there were none. The point being though the efforts were not so much targeting civilians as the means for the Iriquois to continue to wage war.

So again when we speak of means not ends: (The ends have been discussed here already showing Arafats modus operandi was not to benefit the Pals, but to support his own need to prolong conflict in order to maintain his death grip on his people)

Washington sends armies under nominal control of Sullivan to deal with armed raids by Iriquois as a security measure as Colonial settlements were being raided. He targets war making capability to bring a cessation of hositlities/peace to the region, including head to head attack of military as well as removing their war making capaibility by destroying food stocks, supplies etc..

Arafat - target exclusively civilians of no military value.

[Ramo]

[Ramo]

FWIW, Arafat, teh Reagan, and many of the founding fathers were thuggish bastards.

[Vince278]

Isn't everyone tired of talking about Arafat yet?

[Sprayber]

I'm still surprised the Pals haven't bombed a bus in honor of him yet. Maybe they have a mourning period or something.

[Winston]

They're stunned. Arafat dying has taken all the fun out of blowing people up.

Many are reported to experience recurring thoughts of detonating small, one-man suicide bombs in the privacy of their own homes. Or just walk in front of a camel herd and get it over with.

[Pax]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Actually you are. Your self-righteous diatribe about the evils inflicted on South African blacks in response to a condemnation of the use of terrorism was very much a justification for the practice.

My apologies if you feel I'm being self-righteous. First thing. I don't really feel that terrorist or terrorism are actually fair words. They're just propaganda words used to drum up support for a cause. Just like heathen or infidel.
Second, the treatment of blacks in South Africa is a better definition of terrorism. Did the whites not terrorize them? Yes they did. On a daily basis. Any time a group in power treats your life as if it were cattle I feel they you would live in a state of constant terror.
Lastly, terrorism as is most often labeled today is when a group that is likely being or feel it is being oppressed uses unconventional means to defend themselves or protest there situation. It's as if the Oppressor can label anyone a rabel rouser for protesting the situation. Why at least take an honest look and decide for yourself wheter this group has a fair case. In the case of S. Africa there is no way you look at any of Nelson mandela's actions and justify apartheid. In the case of Micheal Collins you can't look at his actions and justify British treatment of the Irish. You can't look at Malcom X's actions and justify segregation. You can't look at the actions of the founding fathers and justify the british crown no taxation without representation. You certainly can't look at Arafat's action and justify Isreal treatment of Palestinians. Mainly because the action of the Oppressor was the cause and the response of the oppressed was the effect that some of us like to call terrorism.

[our_man]

It seems that even in death Arafat continues to claim victims...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/TV/11/15/tv.cbs.apology.ap/index.html

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Sprayber
I'm still surprised the Pals haven't bombed a bus in honor of him yet. Maybe they have a mourning period or something.

not all Palestinians -- just Palestian terrorists

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Pax
My apologies if you feel I'm being self-righteous. First thing. I don't really feel that terrorist or terrorism are actually fair words. They're just propaganda words used to drum up support for a cause. Just like heathen or infidel.
Second, the treatment of blacks in South Africa is a better definition of terrorism. Did the whites not terrorize them? Yes they did. On a daily basis. Any time a group in power treats your life as if it were cattle I feel they you would live in a state of constant terror.
Lastly, terrorism as is most often labeled today is when a group that is likely being or feel it is being oppressed uses unconventional means to defend themselves or protest there situation. It's as if the Oppressor can label anyone a rabel rouser for protesting the situation. Why at least take an honest look and decide for yourself wheter this group has a fair case. In the case of S. Africa there is no way you look at any of Nelson mandela's actions and justify apartheid. In the case of Micheal Collins you can't look at his actions and justify British treatment of the Irish. You can't look at Malcom X's actions and justify segregation. You can't look at the actions of the founding fathers and justify the british crown no taxation without representation. You certainly can't look at Arafat's action and justify Isreal treatment of Palestinians. Mainly because the action of the Oppressor was the cause and the response of the oppressed was the effect that some of us like to call terrorism.

Uhmmm, Arafat was running around being a good little terrorist long before the West Bank and Gaza were occupied by Israel. What does that tell you?

Oh, and **** yes people can use the violence of the younger Mandela and the Collins's of this world as a reason not to negotiate with them. What do you think the Brits were doing for God knows how many years?

You can't look at a bus load of dead children and identify with the criminals who intentionally murdered them.

[notyoueither]

... or can you?