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Oh, and as the funeral showed, whenever the Palestinians DO get their own state, Arafat will be revered as a hero and a 'founding father' of the state. For all the talk about how he was losing his hold over the people, they came out en mass to mourn him.
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“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV) -
Yes. Pity.No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.Comment
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Ah, then you seem clueless about what was done to the Indian tribes in New York State and elsewhere in 1782 or do Indians not count?Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
US founding fathers did not attack civillians and target children in their efforts to achieve independence. Any attempts to link them to the likes of Arafat on a moral basis for their actions in the struggle for independence is by definition falacy.
You don't help yourself by making up a non-existent picture of the founding fathers as saints, you know?If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard ShawComment
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Hmmm, looks like the guy on the top left is going to blow chunks because that other guy is humping the coffin.Originally posted by Gangerolf
crazy
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You are quite correct on this point. The area of contention he should have focused on is the fact that the Founders never had the good sense to piss away peace deals where they were offered nearly everything they asked for.Originally posted by GePap
Ah, then you seem clueless about what was done to the Indian tribes in New York State and elsewhere in 1782 or do Indians not count?I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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NOt everything, but in your little quip you do get to the point- If we are going to say Arafat is not like the Founding fathers, which is a fine position, and one I agree with, the point is not to make up a bizaro world were the Founding fathers are saints and Arafat a devil, but to simply say Arafat was indecisive, vasilating, never able to take the big step, and also massive corrupt- he did not actually gain independence for his people- hence is no founding father.If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard ShawComment
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Massive corruption is a real problem.“It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of ManComment
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MOBIUS: What's that, the Lebanon war? Arafat can match and raise for that war only.
Hmmm, looks like the guy on the top left is going to blow chunks because that other guy is humping the coffin.
wrt the palestinian people, Arafat is just a HA al-Husseini clone. A maximalist who wants it all. The west bank and Gaza state, as he admitted himself, he could've had by 1982, with Begin....Comment
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this thread just keeps changing and changing!
GET A LIFE MING!
To us, it is the BEAST.Comment
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This is something I always wondered about. If we go back to Israeli newspapers in the 30s, how similar would references to Huseini be with modern references to Arafat?Originally posted by Azazel
wrt the palestinian people, Arafat is just a HA al-Husseini clone. A maximalist who wants it all. The west bank and Gaza state, as he admitted himself, he could've had by 1982, with Begin...."Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.Comment
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Agents of the crown. Would be similar to IRS agents today, and remind me tar and feathering is bad for what reason?Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I was more thinking about Samuel Adams who led tar and feathering of many a tax collector, who are, btw, civilians.
"Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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Nope don't recall that their were women and children massacres. Certainly fighting with armed combatants that sided with the Brits.Originally posted by GePap
Ah, then you seem clueless about what was done to the Indian tribes in New York State and elsewhere in 1782 or do Indians not count?
You don't help yourself by making up a non-existent picture of the founding fathers as saints, you know?
OTOH I do admit my expertise in this area is limitted so if you can provide evidence of such I'll take it at face value.
Likewise if you can pin any Indian massacres on the signers of the DOI or Constitution then you may have something to crow about. Since we are talking leader comparisons not the populous a whole."Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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The Gnadenhutten Massacre in 1782 was a Massacre upon women and childs.
It weren´t the founding fathers who ordered it,
but seemingly it were members of the american miliatia who did it and they were never persecuted for the murder.
Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"Comment
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Agents of the crown. Would be similar to IRS agents today
And civilians.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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It would appear the whiskey rebellion was part and parcel of the long history of settlers 'gainst Native Americans and has little to do with the struggle for Independence.
Granted pretty terrible stuff but not part of the struggle for independence as the analogy applies to Arafat's means/efforts for independence and as indicated not sanctioned/ordered by the leaders of the day."Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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