why 911 happend. Documentary on UK tv last night.

[Berzerker]

I started college at a community college when I was 16. I was the perfect geek and I swore I would never in a million years drink. I couldn't understand why people do it. Guess what? One week into my time at UF some guys in my dorm brought up a keg and we had a party and I joined in. Took 1 week for me to break what I had been saying for years. After that I took every opportunity I had to go party and thus began the downfall of my academic career. My advice to you is start drinking now and learn the ins and outs of it all so when you go to college it's not such a huge new thing. Kaak is the only person I've ever known to go to college and not drink.

Interesting, maybe that's why they don't have a drinking problem among French youth. They're so inundated by the wine culture it's common for minors to partake of the fruited elixor.

[Apocalypse]

I'm in college and don't drink.

[MalevolentLight]

I noticed Dennis Miller on that list of neo-cons, he's been getting rather politically correct lately. I remember when he basicly told Scott Ritter he should be ashamed for calling the 2nd gulf war illegitimate, i.e., illegal. Ritter was right of course... And now on a repeat from last week, Deepak Chopra said our allies in the war were bought and Miller told him he shouldn't insult our allies.
To top that off, after Chopra's segment was over, Miller said "ol sixpack got pissed at him". Strange, I saw that interview twice now and it was Miller who was getting a little emotional, Deepak was his usual self - boring...

Dennis Miller is a comedian who makes his living insulting people.

How is that politically correct? And Ritter is a ****ing idiot to call the second Gulf war illegal which doesn't say much for you since you're agreeing with him. Fourteen broken UN resolutions is more than enough to go to war. And saying our allies were bought IS insulting our allies. Saying this is a "coalition of the bribed and coerced" is insulting the intelligence of countries like Britain and Australia. I take back my vote for you in the HOF.

[MalevolentLight]

I'm in college and don't drink.

Yes, but you're a geek so you're excused.

[Zevico]

Err...the Soviets did support terrorism. They were completely fine with their allies sending in terrorists to Israel and killing people.

Get a bigger avatar today!

Neo-con is the new demon word for the left, I take it? If you don't like some right-wing policy you just call them a neo-con? Considering how much Cold War foreign policy was opposed to what the neo-cons believe, i.e., crushing democracies abroad, avoiding a direct confrontation with the principle enemy, etc., one finds it difficult to understand why good old fashioned conservativsm is being retroactively branded neo-conservatism. Neo means new.

Wow...I'm agreeing with che.
Neo-conservatism, afaik, is a 'foreign policy' stance is it not?

Isn't it Ironic Neo-Cons and Islamic Fundamentalism are each the Conservative wings of 2 different cultures and each is responsible for inflicting suffering both on their own society and that of the "Enemy" thus enshuring the creation/perpetuation of the conflict from which they draw their strength.

Neo-cons are not necessarily conservative. There are democrats who are neo-cons. Indeed, I've heard that many of the neo-cons in the republican party were former democrats.

[child of Thor]

hey! stop trying to derail my serious discussion with talk of beer
I wont fall for that trick again(the english used it(beer)to defeat my people along time ago - see people dont forget what was done to them ).

.......And a couple of good points have been mentioned, things aren't just a simple of matter of Republican or Democrat - i think in light of the danger those issues are not even a factor, other than the most dangerous party appears to be the Republican one at this time.
And also just because someone says they are on your side(talking about repub/democrat divide), doesn't mean they have your best interests at heart. It part of the neo-con ethos to lie to the people around them to further their agenda.

And i'll just add that it looks like my Prime Minister(whom i helped vote in) might also be being swayed to the neo-con ethos. I've been watching him recently and he likes to remind us of the terror threat quite alot. Not as often as Mr Bush for sure! but i can see the mark of the neo-con agenda in his words

Here's a test - in the coming days see how often Bush either dodges an issue with, or just starts to repeat how threatend you all are by terrorists. I'll bet he does it 10,20 times more often than Kerry.
That would be appropriate for someone who is getting their political strategy from the neo-cons.

The next series in the program looks at how bin ladin and his group worked together with American forces in afghanisthan and the political situation around that.
I'll probably take a day or two to get the write up done.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by MalevolentLight
Yes, but you're a geek so you're excused.

Not really...and I'm even in a frat.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by MrFun
I'm betting this straight-laced attitude will change when you hit legal drinking age in your state.

Nope.

Neither of my parents drinks, either. Neither have ever smoked, or done drugs. It's not gonna happen.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Zevico
Neo-cons are not necessarily conservative. There are democrats who are neo-cons. Indeed, I've heard that many of the neo-cons in the republican party were former democrats.

Actually, former Trotskyists.

[MalevolentLight]

and I'm even in a frat.

Being in a frat doesn't make you cool. In fact I refused to even talk to people from frats because they're usually little dorks that have decided to be in a perpetual sausage fest in order to make friends. Frats and sororities are for those who want to pay money to make friends. Obviously there are exceptions, Kaak being one, but the overwhelming majority of people in frats are losers. Also the maturity of those in frats seems to be lower than people not in frats.

[Imran Siddiqui]

He's in a military university. Those straight laced losers can't party if you handed them the vodka .

And Kuci, just wait... you'll drink. In fact I have absolutely no doubt that you will.

[Arrian]

Own goal, yet again.

Why in the world someone would come here - to the off-topic forum on an internet site devoted Civilization games - and accuse someone else of being a geek? It's preposterous.

Hell, here that should be taken as a compliment.

-Arrian

[child of Thor]

I've got a new fear that has, for the momment, pushed the thought of the evils inherent in the neo-con doctorine from my mind.

Did i set my VHS correctly?

Hopefully the second part of the series will be available for my write up so some of you lucky Americans can see some of the issues from a different angle

[problem_child]

The Power of Nightmares never once mentioned the role of the capitalist agenda and the interests of corporations in it's long soliloquy of establishment-friendly interpretations.

If you believed that tosh you may as well believe that the US really is interested in spreading democracy or something. United Fruit and Guatamala, Nicaragua and the Contras, El Salvadores brutal tyranny, Shahs Iran and SAVAK, Chile and General Pinochet, the invasion of Grenada, the undeclared wars against Laos and Cambodia, the mass bombings of civilians, not to mention Vietnam, the Grudge against Cuba because it nationalised some corporate property stolen earlier....

All this was because Amewica weally weally wantsh democwasy for evewy one and the neo-cons are an aboration in the Amewican system but also they are just misunderstood well-meaning bwutes who need to be more gentle so that people will understand and yike them!

'r's replaced by 'w's to enthasize spirit of simple-minded naivete

The Power of Nightmares is an example of 'permissable dissent'.

[child of Thor]

Wow! well dug up

I would argue that it wasn't in the scope of the program to drag up all the ill's, and unfairness inherent in a capitalist system, and the definate injustices done to many of the worlds more vunerable people under such a system.

But what it did do well was expose(for me, and i expect many others) whom and what the ultimate beliefs behind the current American foriegn policy are and are about.

And even when it was appearing to be sugar-coated,
"look its not rocket science, we just want to actively spread democracy around the world" - to roughly para-phrase that cuddly looking neo-con with the beard(i cant remember his name now); never for one momment did i feel they came of as anything other than a small walk from looking or sounding like fascists(which is suitable for disolusioned liberals i guess in a perverted way?).

Democracy at the point of a gun? families and innocent children being torn apart by shrapnel from 'liberating' US and uk munitions?
Like that philosophy is bound to work in the long term - what a stupid child like philosophy! Its so full of holes, it makes Falluja's buildings look untouched.

I never did see the last part of the series, but overall i think the series succeded in some of what it aimed to do, namely exposeing the dangerous hold members and sympathisers of the neo-con movement have on this current(and previous!) administration.

It was quite fascinating to see the background to Rumsfield/Pearl and Chennay etc - and all the mad little ploys they've been involved in over the last 20 or so years in america's political system.

The fact that they openly admitted they would lie and support these lies in public to achieve their aims.

Scary people, but ultimatley doomed to failure, which makes them in the long term rather sad and pathetic imho - and for their sakes i hope there isnt a 'God' to judge them
Well what i mean is i hope that there is - these people all deserve something for the human suffering they seem to callously enjoy causeing.