Bush is getting desperate in his campaign.

[Q Classic]

if Ned == Kennedy Democrat, then Ned == Liberal.

(ted kennedy, anyway.)

in any case, i really like these labels. makes it so much easier to pigeonhole everything and everyone.

[Ned]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Maybe. I just don't see it improving with Kerry. The guy is a disaster that can be seen coming.

He honestly thinks he can slag the war in Iraq as a bad idea and a huge mess, and then get others to send help? To what? Suicide, the way he tells it.

The only thing I see him doing is setting up an escape from Iraq. **** the people. **** democracy and the ME. Get us the **** out of there, right now.

It makes me sick to think that Iraqis went through all that they went through, and that now in the last mile some panty waist from Mass is gonna throw them to the wolves.

NYE, my view of Canada just went up ten pegs! Bravo, good post.

Somehow, someway, we have got to improve relations between our countries. It would be nice if we were really allies in fact, rather than in name.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Germany is generally reluctant with sending, or permitting companies to send, weapons abroad. Hell, we have had (and still have) big discussions, if we should send tanks to Turkey, let alone regimes like former Iraq. If Germany did it in the 80's (which I can't confirm right now), it surely has been discussed both in the parliament and with our allies. Looks like none of them had any concerns. And fact is, throughout the 80's the West was rather friendly toward Saddam. Don't make me post Rumsfelds handshake for the 100th time.

Given Germany's history, I for one do not expect them to help out with troops. However, training of Iraqis and financial support would be more than welcome. Germany, after all, has just as must a stake in the success of Iraq as the rest of the world.

[Ned]

Originally posted by MrFun




four words for you Ned:


highest deficit in history

I respond in kind. Kerry was in favor of raising taxes and balancing the budget during a recession, just as did van Buren and Hoover. I give you two words:

GREAT DEPRESSION!

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


No. I think that title is still held by Andrew Johnson.

What about van Buren or Hoover?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
if Ned == Kennedy Democrat, then Ned == Liberal.

(ted kennedy, anyway.)

in any case, i really like these labels. makes it so much easier to pigeonhole everything and everyone.

I think Jack Kennedy was a good president. So does Zell Miller. If these gentlemen were liberals, then so am I.

But, what then do you call the likes of Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, George McGovern and John F. Kerry? They have nothing in common with Kennedy.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Ned
Given Germany's history, I for one do not expect them to help out with troops. However, training of Iraqis and financial support would be more than welcome. Germany, after all, has just as must a stake in the success of Iraq as the rest of the world.

Our history does not hold us back to send troops to Kosovo and Afghanistan. And we are already training Iraqi police since about a year. The news is that old, I can't even dig out a link anymore. However we do it at home and not in the mess you created.

What concerns financial support, it is not going to happen, at least under Bush, who is de facto persona non grata in most of Europe (and the rest of the world as well). You did it unilaterally, you wiped away warnings about both costs and political consequences in an arrogant and insulting way, now you pay for it. For all of it. America hasn't yet paid nearly enough. It is the only language it understands.

[Ned]

Mr. Fun, answer the questions I gave you, please.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Ming
If Kerry is president, they will have to show their true colors... are they really Anti Bush, or Anti American. Bush has been a great whipping boy for them... But will it really change much with Kerry in place. It will be interesting to see if Kerry wins.

If you ever go or read anything about other countries, then you would know that it is anti-bushism that is really popular. Probably because he is a warmongering jerk in the international arena.

-Drachasor

[Ned]

Sir Ralph, understood. Loud and clear.

Is that Hadrian in your avatar?

[Harovan]

No, Friedrich "Barbarossa", who flattened Milan. Good old times, but long gone.

[Drachasor]

Well, the main reason that Bush will never get much international support is because he can NEVER admit when he is wrong or made a mistake. Allies will never come into Iraq if they have to tacitly agree or imply agreement with Bush's international policy.

That's a simple fact.

Kerry on the other hand can at least negotiate for allies to help out with our mess in Iraq, and make no mistake, it *is* a mess. By admitting that it was a mistake and that we poorly planned and made bad decisions on when to go in, he will win support in Europe of the people and quite possibly the governments.

Anyone that somehow things not admitting you made a massive error is going to get as much help fixing the errror as admitting the error would is being unrealistic.

-Drachasor

[Drachasor]

Oh, and once again, Kerry does not plan to turn tail and run.

He has said he thinks we will be able to get some of our troops out of Iraq in 6 months. Looking at his overall platform, it is fairly obvious that figure counts on international support.

He also clearly wants to put more troops in at first to help stabalize the region to encourage others to come in. Once we have a number of allies, then we can pull out *some* troops and still have more coalition troops than we do now.

It is very clear that something needs to change in Iraq. It is equally clear that Bush doesn't think anything needs to change and will not change anything.

-Drachasor

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by notyoueither
The man is a walking international disaster. Bush may have upset apple carts, Kerry has no clue that what he says is listened to outside of focus groups.

So you think someone that managed to alienate all US allies after a unifying event like 9/11 has somehow just upset applecarts?

You think someone that can admit when America has made a mistake, that can admit when we need help, that can admit that the current Administration doesn't appoint the best people is somehow a walking international disaster even when the rest of the world sees nearly all of those items as blatantly obvious?

-Drachasor

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Drachasor
At being honest, at being fiscally responsible, at diplomacy, at representing the needs of the people against the needs of corporations, at listening to criticism, at understanding the problems the working class is having, and at many other things.

Anyone want to try to defend Bush on any of these items besides Iraq (which we are already going over)?

-Drachasor