I just voted for Kerry

[joncha]

I knew it! You're voting Socialist, you closet communist, you!

[Pekka]

joncha, No. But I also think it's my business and no one has the right to know, and that information plays no significant role in any discussion I'm willing to engage with someone in real life.

I will be offended simply because it's the unwritten rule in here and everyone knows it. If someone wouldn't know this and how we feel about it, then I couldn't be really offended. It's my business, no one elses. That's like asking 'so how much money do you make?' ..you know.. it's my business and only friends are allowed to ask that, and they get the answer or not. We simply do not discuss politics in here with friends and family, except on few occasions when there's something ****ed up and it's current news.

It's a secret. Just like if I get a letter, no one has the right to open it, not my parents, not my wife, not my friends, no one. And if they do, I'll be deeply offended. It's a secret, and I should not be forced to say it. No one has the right to put me or anyone else in that situation, where they are forced to say their business. It's personal. Including family and friends. Period.

It's like the other extreme from last elections in Iraq, the puppet elections where everyone just shouted SADDAM! and got back on to their business. In here, we have 'don't ask don't tell' policy. And it works great. No one gets any labels. And because we have that policy, it doesn't mean you would be embarrased not to tell. you see where I'm going with this? Without this policy, you get a perception where the other one is embarrased to tell. But since it's a policy not to tell, it doens't mean you're embarrased. No suspicion, no uncomfortable situations.

And it also destroys the atmosphere, where you can be mentally pressured to vote someone. Because it doesn't matter who you vote for, no one will come and bother you afterwards. So you can't pressure me either. And everyone accepts the 'I don't tell you'. Politics is a difficult subject in here to talka bout anyway. So we rather not. Why let that influence on your friendships and stuff? Politics is strictly forbidden in schools too, teachers are not allowed to say who they are for and why. It's forbidden in Universities as well, now that we have our municipal electiosn going on, no one is allowed to put posters etc in schools to promote a candidate. No ifs buts or ands. So when some people say everything is politics, or politics is everywhere.. not in here. And that's the way I like it.

[joncha]

The Socialist crack was aimed at Dis, but just as well you bit on it, Pekka.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by JohnT
Here in TN we get to vote early, including Saturday - polls are open from 9-5.

Tomorrow the family JohnT will go on a voting excursion, taking Little Miss so she can get some exposure to the process.

Note to JohnT: escape the pit that is Tennessee.

[DanS]

Well, there's no such rules here, as you can plainly see. It's probably why there are so many US election threads and so few Finnish election threads.

Of course, if someone asks you who you're voting for, you can always decline to answer. Nobody would take it personally.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Have you been paying attention to his posts for the past few months?

More like the past six.

[Pekka]

DanS, sure you can say no everywhere. But like I said, you get labels from that with many people, just like joncha suspected I'd be embarrased to say who I vote for. That's not the case.

joncha, yeah I'm the biggest socialist you can find on this board. Or maybe you didn't do your homework on me very good this time.

[DanS]

Pekka: So I take it that there are no political yard signs or bumper stickers in Finland?

[Pekka]

If by this you mean there are no signs and posters by the road and stuff? well yes and no. There are spaces that are reserved just for this purpose, and there's pictures of candidates and their numbers, and their names fo course and what party they represent. That's it.

Then of course you can distribute flyers if you want to. But no, you can't put your posters where every you feel like.

[DanS]

You mean people don't plaster their lawns with yard signs of who they support? Nobody has political yard sign stealing operations?

Y'all must have incredibly dull election campaigns.

[Kuciwalker]

Unlike, say, American election campaigns.

Well, to be fair, ours can be interesting, in a sort of sickening, to-what-depths-will-they-sink-next kind of way.

[Pekka]

"You mean people don't plaster their lawns with yard signs of who they support? Nobody has political yard sign stealing operations?"

I've never ever seen this

Even the flyers, I think I have never seen anyone publicly distributing them, they're slipped into your mail box discreetly .

Yeah it's dull, but I dont' see why politics has to be a show. Politics is supposed to be in my opinion decision making, and I don't see how that can be a show. If it's a show, it means less facts, and less facts means poorer decisions as the facts are more vague. Every second of show is off from decision making and decision forming. So yeah it's VERY boring in here. However, I think a little twist in it would do good, but not via show.

also if it is a show, it means the ones who put a better show gets more visibility meaning they have better chances dominating. Some would say that there's nothing wrong in that, but while I agree it's not necessarily evil, I'm in for a more equal opportunity for politicians. Because at the end, I feel that our representors should be OUR representors, NOT the ones who put on the biggest show and basically steals everyone elses time to show their case. Yes, I'd like to sit in a big comfortable seat with potato chips and case of beer, and then have every candidate coming and telling me why they should be voted for, and what they want to do and what they are about, and everyone gets the same time and same conditions, no matter what their backround is. And i want to make my decision who I vote for from that, because I want to vote for the candidate I feel is the best to drive our country forward, not the one who makes biggest noise of themselves.

BUT of course candidates promote themselves. Usually the parties have their own budgets to promote their candidates, meaning that they set up a 'show' to places like malls and stuff, and they hand out their flyers and speak on a mic to tell what they're about and people can ask questions from them publicly, and they hand out lolli pops and other bribes .

So, people choose where they go and who they want to hear, and they don't have to be forced to hear about candidates they don't care for, or parties they don't care for. If they want to go to a 'show', they go and find out when their party they like have a public appearance and they go out, listen and ask questions.

I think it's good, I don't want the space that is held in clean with the tax money to be polluted by freaking posters of candidates. That woudl also mean that the one with biggest budget and most money would be dominating and the poor ones and especially the independents would be totally run over every single time, and that the already disgusting party power grab would be even bigger, as they'd be the only ones with chance.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by joncha
Why on earth would you be offended by someone asking who you're voting for? Are you that embarrassed of your choice?

Here is another perspective on that, from Croatia. In many formerly communist countries, politics still have the stigma of something that can cost you your job or even your life.

My parents worked in a society where the best (admittedly, not the only) way to advance in any career was to join the party, and criticizing the party could get people jailed or worse.

So there is still some of that "don't speak out and don't expose yourself too loudly, the highest grass is the first to be cut" mentality here.

Furthermore, political parties are sharply divided over issues in our country's history, world war II but also recent history when we had a war. So emotions can be pretty strong.

As a rule, I don't like discussing politics with people who care about it more than I do.

I would never ask someone who they voted for. I would also NOT answer a stranger, even a colleague, who I voted for, even if he asked.

That is strictly personal matter. However my family knows and my friends know (and I know theirs).

And it is acceptable to discuss the choices with them, even mock, but never too seriousely, like in "you're an idiot for voting such".

[DanS]

Originally posted by Pekka
I've never ever seen this

Even the flyers, I think I have never seen anyone publicly distributing them, they're slipped into your mail box discreetly .

No going door to door asking for votes?

You would be in a for a very big shock if you were to go to Ohio right now. Let me tell ya.

Retail politics is a sight to see. It's extremely important when you have a lot of offices and issues on the ballot. Probably 30 or 40 offices and issues for each voter to vote on in Ohio.

Imran: How many offices did you have to vote for? Were there any tax issues or referendums?

[Pekka]

VetLegion, yeah. Though we didn't have the 'could cost your life' thing in here, but the same mentality of 'the highest grass if the first to be cut' is very true .

This is why we have 7 parties and they all have the same issues and opinions. I mean, you ask from these party members if they'd agree, and they'd say 'NO!' but then again, I'm talking about REAL diversity. I don't want to vote a party that I have fundamental problems with, in here it's all about who has the most realistic budget for C's sake. How interesting is that?

But the tallest grass.. If you want to be 'radical' and suggest something else for a change, you will be ridiculed and laughed at. Our parliament doesnt' have fights they have in some countries, but open disrespect is more than common. When someone speaks, no matter what subject, the opposition or coalition or any individual, they often laugh LOUD to make you look like a fool. Politicians should have tough skins, yes, but this showcases the atmosphere. If you are not with us, you're a joke and we do everything we can to make you look like a fool. The opposition rarely challenges the coalition. They don't want to challenge them unless they are sure to win it and brake the coalition. And then they laugh at each other.

I mean.. look at yourselves in there.. you are laughing to a person who is making a speech, who is just not agreeing with you and you laugh? Why? Is there something funny in it? It means, that they can't really even challenge the view, they just laugh because they don't have any other weapons. It's just one big popularity contest over there and it freaking sucks. Then there are like bigger parties and smaller parties, and they have their traditional coalitions from the past days and still working. That means, that real changes won't happen because they are all using the good brother system. And anyone who tries to break it, is the tallest grass. The situation is so bad IMO, that you need a freaking HUGE party that is rich to ever challenge anyone in there. And for that you need a lot of money and supporters, and a LOT OF MONEY. So it comes back to money again, and the rich parties do rule and will never be out of the parliament, no matter how poorly they would perform. Because they grab that power and hold it, they are more interested in being in power than making changes, and the worst you can do is make UNPOPULAR changes, that makes you the tallest grass. Of course this is the same in every country. But the party power in here is something redicilous already. And there is no diversity.