This Year's US Economics Nobel Winner: Bush Tax Cuts Too Small

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Kidicious
All I can say is that you are dead wrong. They all put their political stance into their advice. Economics is nothing more than politics.

While many might, not all do. Additionally, there is a science and real knowledge in Economics, so even one with a certain political stance can give good advice on implementing that stance.

Lastly, I was correct when I said that Economists don't decide policy; that's what the government does. Economists can only give advice on how it should be implemented (and in some cases what policies in general should be implemented).

-Drachasor

[Kidlicious]

You didn't answer my question. Do doctors take on extra jobs to earn more money? Would they if taxes were lower or higher?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Drachasor
While many might, not all do. Additionally, there is a science and real knowledge in Economics, so even one with a certain political stance can give good advice on implementing that stance.

Economics is not a science. Your political stance determines everything that you believe about economics. Look at this damn forum. Look at the real world for christ sake.

Lastly, I was correct when I said that Economists don't decide policy; that's what the government does. Economists can only give advice on how it should be implemented (and in some cases what policies in general should be implemented).

-Drachasor

What is the difference between Bush arguing for tax cuts and Greenspan arguing for tax cuts? Nothing. They are both politicians.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Oerdin


You're right and this is my main grip with the Republican version of tax cuts. The Republicans want to eliminate the inheritance tax, slash the capital gains tax, and kill the alternate minimum tax while creating a new national sales tax. The problem is this means the ultra wealthy that make their money from stocks and capital investment will end up paying almost no taxes plus since there won't be an inheritance tax we will see the creation of a rigid, permanent upper class.

The national sales tax will shift the tax burden even more to wage earners and away from people who make their living off of unearned income. I like to think of America as a meritocracy where people get ahead based upon their hard work and good ideas not because of who their grandfathers were. A well designed inheritance tax does that by letting the family farm go to the next generation but not letting the Rockefellers or the Gates' become a permanent aristocracy.

The super rich have loopholes so that they do not have to pay such taxes as it stands, this just evens the odds with everyone else. We do not have, as you put it, a "well designed inheritance tax".

[Arrian]

This is rather unfair.

First of all, businessmen are not workers.

Secondly, lawyers are under time pressure to complete tasks because they have deadlines to meet. Ditto with doctors. However, they don't work 60-80 hours weeks all years around. They don't average to much more than 40 hour weeks. Much less for senior partners.

Wow, UR, you really have no idea what you're talking about.

First off, clearly "businessmen" do not fit YOUR definition of "worker" because they make too much money to actually work in your worldview. Fact is, however, that high-level executives often do work crazy hours to keep up.

My finacee, who is a low-level IT manager, struggles to keep up in 40 hrs/week. If I wasn't around to call her and say "time to go, let's go home" she would probably work late night after night.

Second, lawyers in firms *do* work ridiculous hours, especially at first. Hell, ask Asleepatthewheel. I have several friends who recently completed law school. These people do not work 60hrs one week and then 20hrs the next, to average around 40. Naw, it's more like 60+ one week, and then a relatively easy 40 hr one.

I don't know any doctors, but my impression is that they earn their money. I'd like to see them work a little less, actually, since I worry about some doctor being too tired to properly treat me in an emergency.

But they don't count. They make lots of money are therefore they are evil and lazy and exploiters. You've got it all figured out.

-Arrian

[Ned]

Originally posted by Drachasor


So, Kerry wanting to close loop-holes and Bush not wanting to is a reason to vote for Bush then?

"Class Warfare Crap" is not always pure envy. There are legitmate imbalances and problems with the tax code and how people should be taxed. For one, the Sub $200k bracket needs more of their money spent on basic needs (percentage-wise) than the richer brackets. A progressive code simply takes this into account. Naturally you need to be careful about how much you tax and the economic effects thereof, but a progressive tax simply makes good sense.

And, according to the Econ Nobel holder, lower taxes for the working class encourages them to work more and spurs the economy.

-Drachasor

Kerry would not only close loopholes, he would raise taxes. He also admits that he cannot fund all the programs he wants without raising taxes. Remember, Clinton PROMISED a middle class tax cut. He was elected based (in part) on that promise. He lied. He immediately raised taxes, the largest tax increase in many decades. So, how can we trust Kerry.

Besides, the major problem we face today is funding SS. We cannot fund it now without substantial tax increases which the Fed chairman warned would cripple the economy. The ONLY way out of this is to grow the economy substantially. So, the real question is which policy is more likely to result in economic growth. If you address THIS question, rather than just some socialist agenda to impoverish the so-called rich, then I would for one be much more receptive to your arguments.

As to the poor and middle class, the most of them today pay little or no income taxes whatsoever. The people making 100k-300k are the one's really getting hammered by income taxes. Ask anyone in this income bracket how they feel about taxes.

[Ned]

Arrian, lawyers at all levels work a lot of hours. Ditto corporate managers. If you don't, you are viewed as a slacker and will not have much of a career.

[Arrian]

That's sorta what I was saying to Urban Ranger (although I was focusing on the "new up-n-coming lawyer" side because I actually know people in that category).

Crazy story I hear recently:

One of the lawyers I work with recently attended a trial, and apparently the head of the firm opposing us came to court absolutely hammered. He stumbled into the courtroom, in the midst of ongoing testimony, came over to the table where the insurance carrier attorneys were sitting, and kissed one of those attorneys on the cheek (she apparently wanted none of it and ordered him away). Later, he got the attention of the woman's male counterpart and asked him (loudly) to tell her that's "she's so pretty." Later, the judge was speaking, and he used the word absolutely. The drunk slams his hand down on the table in front of him and exclaims "abssoluutely!" At which point his partner hauls him out of court. During a break, the drunk attempts to negotiate settlement with our side. Later that afternoon, our lead counsel gets a call from a partner telling him to please disregard anything the drunk said.

Yikes. Hard to believe the judge didn't hold him in contempt. I guess the judge is retiring soon and just doesn't care that much, but wow.

-Arrian

[Ned]

Arrian, I agree. That was some story.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
Second, lawyers in firms *do* work ridiculous hours, especially at first.

Once again, in contradicting yourselves, one of you has made a point better than one of us has.

At first lawyers work more hours when their pay is lower. As time goes by, and their pay increases, so does their hours worked.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Once again, in contradicting yourselves, one of you has made a point better than one of us has.

At first lawyers work more hours when their pay is lower. As time goes by, and their pay increases, so does their hours worked.

And once again, you manage to find a way to contradict yourself without anyone's assistance.

[Kidlicious]

I just got back from the doctor. I tried to get in as a walk in. The guys on vacation.

Damn. I wonder about you guys. Is there any reason behind the claims that you make? It seems that your bias is so strong that it has absolute control over your thought. Do you really beleive the crap that you say?

[Harry Tuttle]

Originally posted by Kidicious
I just got back from the doctor. I tried to get in as a walk in. The guys on vacation.

Damn. I wonder about you guys. Is there any reason behind the claims that you make? It seems that your bias is so strong that it has absolute control over your thought. Do you really beleive the crap that you say?

Get another doctor. Duh.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Kidicious

Economics is not a science. Your political stance determines everything that you believe about economics. Look at this damn forum. Look at the real world for christ sake.

Biology is not a science because atheists believe in evolution?

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Harry Tuttle

Originally posted by Kidicious
I just got back from the doctor. I tried to get in as a walk in. The guys on vacation.
Damn. I wonder about you guys. Is there any reason behind the claims that you make? It seems that your bias is so strong that it has absolute control over your thought. Do you really beleive the crap that you say?

Get another doctor. Duh.

What doctors aren't allowed to take vacations? Are we in some facists country where they have to work all the time?

You tried to walk into the office unnannounced, and you happen to find out he was on vacation. Well, that happens now and then. If you had made an appointment and you showed up to him gone, that would be different.

What the heck kind of world do you think you live in where doctors can't get some R&R?

Heck, I can't believe people are giving a job that is totally devoted to helping others such a hard time. True, some doctors are selfish, but many are there out of a genuine desire to help others, especially general practitioners. Then they find they have to spend huge amounts of time on insurance paperwork, and sometimes need to give minor lies on the paperwork so the patient can get what they need and still get the insurance they deserve.

Now Kidicious wants to pretend that doctors are lazy and uncaring, who for some reason get into large debt in medical school for no good reason.

-Drachasor