Russia plans to arm Venezuela to counter US backed Colombia.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

And Americans wonder why they're decried as arrogant.

Last Conformist, arrogant? Hardly. We have been on the line bravely defending democracy with out blood and treasure in the world since FDR. We believe that we have some sort of manifest destiny to bring democracy to the world.

[Mr. Harley]

Ned - we are talking a commission that has been a toothless non-enforcer. Will you grant me this next fact, that even if it was technically legal, that if it was done with the knowledge that it would disenfranchise legitimate voters, that no chance was given to let them contest being disenfranchised, and that demographically more of those voters would be democrats (and that the people involved were aware of this), that it was a perversion of the democratic process. If not, what standard would you use? You know where I'm going - I'll try to find you another Shinseki style source, but I need to know the criteria. You and I typically argue rather than fight.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ned


Anyone who is truly commited to democracy is pro-American.

[Kidlicious]

I actually rarely laugh at Ned. He terrifies me, mostly because I see a little bit of him in all Americans.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

So is Cuba just a has been counter to America now?

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Ned


Last Conformist, arrogant? Hardly. We have been on the line bravely defending democracy with out blood and treasure in the world since FDR. We believe that we have some sort of manifest destiny to bring democracy to the world.

In this particular case, charges of arrogance appear to be entirely justified, too.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by Ned
Last Conformist, arrogant? Hardly.

Come on, Ned. That's sarcasm, right?

Americans ARE the most arrogant people in the world, next to Liberals and the French.

With American Liberals and French Liberals being uber arrogant.........

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ned

We believe that we have some sort of manifest destiny to bring democracy to the world.

What a bunch of hyperbole. United States has its interests in neo-colonialism, not democracy.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by MrFun





What a bunch of hyperbole. United States has its interests in neo-colonialism, not democracy.

how about hyper-neo-colonialism or super duper-neo-colonialism.

[JCG]

Re: Russia plans to arm Venezuela to counter US backed Colombia.

Modern Russians are rather capitalist (they've even sold some helos to Colombia in the past), so I wouldn't make too much of the claim of them wanting to "extend their influence" in any "Cold War"-like fashion.

Instead, what is clear is that Venezuela's simply trying to arm itself with non-U.S. weaponry, in order to widen their already existing military superiority over Colombia. That's it. Venezuela can currently slice through any of their non-Brazilian neighbors (like Guyana, with which they have a rather big territorial dispute) quite easily, anyways.

Last month, irregular combatants from Colombia, who have still not been identified, crossed into Venezuela and killed five Venezuelan soldiers and an oil company engineer.

Yet the Venezuelan "Scientific Police" (Cicpc) has stated that preeliminary evidences do point to the FARC... Not to mention that they were involved in a previously botched kidnapping (of Venezuelans) which has been linked to the murders...seems that vague "neutrality" isn't worth too much these days if your own citizens are still going to be hurt.

Another local academic, AnÃbal Romero at the Simón BolÃvar University, cited rumors according to which Venezuela may try to acquire MiG-29 combat planes and light arms from the Ukraine after purchasing the Mi-26 helicopters.

They're not going to be all Mi-26; most will apparently be Mi-17. Which is confirmed by the article itself:

But Rangel noted that the helicopters that Venezuela plans to buy are already used by other countries in the region, like Mexico, Peru and even Colombia.

And that's all....*fades out*

[Last Conformist]

Why does, then, Venezuela, that's not fighting a civil war, have a much stronger military than Colombia, that is?

[JCG]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
Why does, then, Venezuela, that's not fighting a civil war, have a much stronger military than Colombia, that is?

Oil + Quite good relations with the U.S. until recently (During the 70's-80's the U.S. sold stuff to Venezuela that Colombia couldn't even dream of getting at the time) + Lack of a Civil War = A military that can concentrate on buying more expensive conventional weaponry (ie: Tanks, Fighter planes, Artillery, etc), instead of one that's by far focused on counter-insurgency and has become dependant on U.S. "aid" for most of its recent purchases.

[Last Conformist]

Yeah, but why do they feel they need it?

[JCG]

Well, the answer is "a little bit of everything".

In addition to all that, Venezuela has always had a stronger military tradition....and then there's an unresolved territorial dispute in the Gulf of Venezuela which almost led to war in 1987. Venezuela would have kicked Colombia's ass back then, in any case, as it was much better armed already. The dispute is barely mentioned now, but it's still an underlying factor that increases tension when it comes up.

You can also add evident ideological differences to that background, which serve to fuel paranoia on both sides of the border these days.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Ned


Last Conformist, arrogant? Hardly. We have been on the line bravely defending democracy with out blood and treasure in the world since FDR. We believe that we have some sort of manifest destiny to bring democracy to the world.

I don't. I would hope that those in power don't either.

A two-parties is hardly a democracy.

I'm pro-Democracy, pro-America, anti-American democracy. You'd probably think I'd make a "bad" monitor.