Chirac warns of 'catastrophe' of world 'choked' by US values

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


- I just don't see how the world would be better off with these barriers to communication than without.

Barriers to communication are unfortunatly very often located in other human behaviour that language. And also, in some instances, these barriers are a protection : for instance I would prefer never understand the words eructated by Ned.

You could also consider the basic english used by people all over the world; it hardly exceed 100 words, and one can doubt that it will ever be sufficient to communicate complex and sensible ideas and feelings. Molly bloom has probably one of the best writing expression of Apolyton, and in every post I find one or two words that I dont understand, and very often that my dictionnary ignore as well! I certainly express myself more precisely and deeply in my autochthonous language. So you can forget your imperialistic dream of 6 billions people speaking english in lieu of their native language.

[Ned]

Originally posted by DAVOUT


Barriers to communication are unfortunatly very often located in other human behaviour that language. And also, in some instances, these barriers are a protection : for instance I would prefer never understand the words eructated by Ned.

You could also consider the basic english used by people all over the world; it hardly exceed 100 words, and one can doubt that it will ever be sufficient to communicate complex and sensible ideas and feelings. Molly bloom has probably one of the best writing expression of Apolyton, and in every post I find one or two words that I dont understand, and very often that my dictionnary ignore as well! I certainly express myself more precisely and deeply in my autochthonous language. So you can forget your imperialistic dream of 6 billions people speaking english in lieu of their native language.

Davout, what is it that you don't understand about my posts? My typos, my use of obscure words at times, or my right-wing ideas? Or all of the above?

You guys in Europe are fools to not want one language now that you have effectively restored common rule with the EU. One of the lessons of the Roman Empire is that one language and one culture were good.

[Pekka]

The only logic from this would be that no, we wouldn't all learn to speak english but rather mandarin chinese. That's the biggest one right there. Do you want to learn this by force? One less barrier, right? I don't think so.

Besidfes, you can't express yourself fully with new languages as you can with your native language. Of course exceptions might occur, but this is the rule. It doesn't make the communication better, it can even limit the majority. This naturally is OK with most, if the english is chosen as THE language. How about mandarin chinese. How about Finnish? Or, if you feel like you wouldn't learn it fully in 10 years.. what do I care, I already do speak it?

[Ned]

Pekka, how about Latin?

[Pekka]

well that's fair I guess if we were to choose one.

I just don't believe it would be a great idea. I see the benefits of one language, but I don't think .. I mean it is part of the people and their identity and culture. To separate them would be not rich but vice versa IMO.

In EU, it will never happen. Do you think we all want to learn French and speak only that? On the other hand, do you think the French will give up French? THat's one right there. Then there are others too...

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Ned


Davout, what is it that you don't understand about my posts? My typos, my use of obscure words at times, or my right-wing ideas? Or all of the above?

My point is not that I do not understand your posts, it that I would PREFER not to understand them. This is a nice demonstration that all my efforts to speak english are wasted!

I am a right winger in Europe, but I do not recognize right-wing ideas in your ideas. As a matter of fact, I see you as mainly accusing people with whom you desagree on the basis of intents that you imagine they have. And this is really boring.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Pekka
well that's fair I guess if we were to choose one.

I just don't believe it would be a great idea. I see the benefits of one language, but I don't think .. I mean it is part of the people and their identity and culture. To separate them would be not rich but vice versa IMO.

In EU, it will never happen. Do you think we all want to learn French and speak only that? On the other hand, do you think the French will give up French? THat's one right there. Then there are others too...

The way to do it would be to have everyone learn English as well as their native language. Business and government would be conducted in English for efficiency. The native cultures would continue for a time, perhaps for a long time. I find it interesting, for example, that Latin did not survive in the British Isles even after the Romans had ruled there for more than 400 years.

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Ned


I find it interesting, for example, that Latin did not survive in the British Isles even after the Romans had ruled there for more than 400 years.

I have heard some saying that the English language has not survived in the US a well.

[Pekka]

Why? Why would we want that? I don't believe in one culture and one language. That sounds a lot like 3rd reich. English IS taught in most places and people speak it. What do you mean native cultures? Whose culture is chosen to be the one and only one? I just can't see what the good thing is in that one... I don't see why other people should be like me or why I should be like them. I should learn to understand other people and educate other people about me.

besides, if we are to go with the dominating language, and oldest cultures, then we go to China, that's it. There's no English.

[DAVOUT]

Diversity and complexity are all the worth of life. Limit the use of industrial principles where they are useful, not in sociology.

[Ned]

Pekka, then the EU would be out of step with the rest of the world if it sucks Chirac's Gaulic member.

[Pekka]

Oh. We're not sucking anyones member. And we have our own language and culture. That's it.

[Ned]

The choice of English is not surrender. It is pratical.

[alva]

Originally posted by Ned

I find it interesting, for example, that Latin did not survive in the British Isles even after the Romans had ruled there for more than 400 years

AFAIK it did better than the original language

[Pekka]

? I think you are overestimating Chirac's powers and influence..