Time Value of Money

[Imran Siddiqui]

Wages certainly are not the measure of the value of labor

Of course they are. The price paid for labor is the value of that labor. Defining it any other way is silly and idiotic.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
Kid, are you talking about the utility value of the work?

I'm talking about the utility value of what that work has created.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm sorry but it still states that you are trying to redefine the debate.

Only you would say that arguing about whether labor is the only production function that matters in creation of labor is a redefinition of a debate which started by saying "only work creates value".

You lost... you can save yourself some time by simply admitting it.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Wages certainly are not the measure of the value of labor

Of course they are. The price paid for labor is the value of that labor. Defining it any other way is silly and idiotic.

That's the least sucky argument that you have made so far.

[Flip McWho]

I'm talking about the utility value of what that work has created.

Well even still, the utility value of that created work is decided by how much people are willing to pay for it. There is just no way to measure the utility value without applying the monetary system and that works on supply and demand.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I'm sorry but it still states that you are trying to redefine the debate.

Only you would say that arguing about whether labor is the only production function that matters in creation of labor is a redefinition of a debate which started by saying "only work creates value".

You lost... you can save yourself some time by simply admitting it.

Look it's this simple. I haven't argued that machines aren't used to produce value. That was the argument that you were making. Pretty sad. You already lost by using that defeatist strategy we call strawmanizing.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flip McWho


Well even still, the utility value of that created work is decided by how much people are willing to pay for it. There is just no way to measure the utility value without applying the monetary system and that works on supply and demand.

I agree that the value of something depends on the scarcity of that good and the benefit that people get from it. My claim is only that the good or service was created by labor, and so therefore the value was too. Determined and/or measured is not the same as created.

[Kidlicious]

I've got time for one more reply then I'm really going to go to bed.

[Flip McWho]

But you are still ignoring the fact of all the other factors that go into the production of the good and thereby helping to determine the value.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I haven't argued that machines aren't used to produce value.

You've argued that "only work creates value". And that ONLY labor can create value. Only seems to imply that capital isn't part of the equation. At least in most English speaking countries .

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
But you are still ignoring the fact of all the other factors that go into the production of the good and thereby helping to determine the value.

Land and labor are the only factors that go into the production of a good and service. Other factors, like rent, go into the price. I'm not ignoring that.

[Flip McWho]

Well you admit land is a factor of production?

My claim is only that the good or service was created by labor, and so therefore the value was too.

Well then land is also a factor of production so land is a consideration in the value as well. Therefore labour is not the creating of the value as the good or service wasn't just created by labour.

[Iskandar Reza]

I think what he means is labor=energy. That seems to be the only way any of his arguments make better sense. Well, I'm off to play SMAX.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I haven't argued that machines aren't used to produce value.

You've argued that "only work creates value". And that ONLY labor can create value. Only seems to imply that capital isn't part of the equation. At least in most English speaking countries .

Labor can create value by doing work more efficiently (i.e. using tools).

[Flip McWho]

I'd agree with that. But what happens in the instance where a machine is the only factor in production? Or if the only labour involvement is someone standing there makind sure the machine doesn't break down.