Iran has strategic missle -- threatens Israel

[GePap]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Well, when someone, i.e., our ally Pakistan, gives them the plans and equipment, it's kinda hard for sanctions to work.

That's exactly my point. There's always someone who's willing to go against the sanctions, whether it's the Pakistanis, the Russians or the French. Sanctions are worthless for serious problems.

The problem is that there are NO international sanctions on NK. The US and others may have unilateral sanctions, but there is no international sanctions regime.

[Drake Tungsten]

Why are there no international sanctions on North Korea, GePap? Answer that question and you'll see that I'm exactly right.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Ned
The Arab world? They would back the non Arab Iranians who are Shi'ites to boot? You forget that Saudi Arabi, Kuwait and others financed a war against Iran. Iran is the enemy of the Arab World.

Originally posted by Ned
GePap, the Iranians may not attack immediately. But their possession of nuclear weapons would destabalize the situation dramatically as neighboring states could now attack Israel knowing that Israel could no longer resort to nuclear weapons if she started to lose.

Somehow these two statemenys do not compute

[GePap]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Why are there no international sanctions on North Korea, GePap? Answer that question and you'll see that I'm exactly right.

China's veto in the UN

And you are still wrong- the statement was that if there were international sanctions on Iran it would slow them down greatly-which is true. That the US can't muster world diplomatic support to do so is a different question.

We saw sanctions work against Iraq. According to all reports, a decade after Israel attacked Iraq's nuclear facilities, Iraq was on the verge of a nuke. 13 years after sanctions were placed, Iraqs nuclear program was still dead in the water.

[Ned]

Originally posted by GePap


China's veto in the UN

And you are still wrong- the statement was that if there were international sanctions on Iran it would slow them down greatly-which is true. That the US can't muster world diplomatic support to do so is a different question.

We saw sanctions work against Iraq. According to all reports, a decade after Israel attacked Iraq's nuclear facilities, Iraq was on the verge of a nuke. 13 years after sanctions were placed, Iraqs nuclear program was still dead in the water.

Ah, but Saddam's nuclear program was discovered by inspectors. The sanctions had nothing to do with ending Saddam's nuke program. The Gulf War did.

[GePap]

Many of you may be a bit unaware of the implications of the NPT- the baragin nuclear powres made to keep their hegemony. Signatories have every right to develop peaceful uses of nuclear technology. As it turns out (and we should all have known), the same tech that allows one to enrich uranium to stick in a reactor can be used to enrich uranium to stick in a bomb- but Iran has the right to enrich uranium under the NPT as long as the end results are monitored. The insistance on denying Iran its basic rights under the NPT will lead nowhere in the end.

The nuclear powers may try to rewrite the NPT, but I doubt the world will continue to simply accept as given the nuclear apartheid.

[Ned]

GePap, it is my understanding that Iran has been lying.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned


Ah, but Saddam's nuclear program was discovered by inspectors. The sanctions had nothing to do with ending Saddam's nuke program. The Gulf War did.

Inspections were part of the sanctions regime inplemented after the Gulf War.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned
GePap, it is my understanding that Iran has been lying.

Iran has not declared all its activities, which it is supposed to do as a signatory of the NPT. What the US is demanding now is to strip Iran of its rights as a signatory. Of course, Iran could then just pull out of the NPT and no longer submit at all to any inspection.

[Ned]

Originally posted by GePap


Inspections were part of the sanctions regime inplemented after the Gulf War.

If you get adequate inspections in Iran, I think both the US and Israel would be satisfied.

Adequate is the key word.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned


If you get adequate inspections in Iran, I think both the US and Israel would be satisfied.

Adequate is the key word.

I agree there-but then Iran has many reasons to want nukes. Iran wanted nukes under the Shah and I think most of Iran's establishment, including reformers, have no problems with a nuclear Iran, just like moderates in pakistan and India.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Ned
Ah, but Saddam's nuclear program was discovered by inspectors. The sanctions had nothing to do with ending Saddam's nuke program. The Gulf War did.

Something doesn't make sense here.

Saddam didn't have a nuclear program after Gulf War I, when the embargo began.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ned
The Arab world? They would back the non Arab Iranians who are Shi'ites to boot? You forget that Saudi Arabi, Kuwait and others financed a war against Iran. Iran is the enemy of the Arab World.

Not as much as they hate the Zionist Entity^TM.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Why are there no international sanctions on North Korea, GePap? Answer that question and you'll see that I'm exactly right.

Other than charity and illicit trade in missile technology, the DPRK doesn't do much external trade except with the PRC. Sanctions would be an even more pointless symbolic exercise than they usually are, but this time, applied against a paranoid psychotic who makes Idi Amin look like a paragon of lucidity.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

And air power has never won a war. Yes, we can bomb the **** out of most anyone, and it won't accomplish much of anything.

Who wants a war? I just want to blow the **** out of Iran's nuclear facilities...

Generally, most folks would consider that starting a war.