Activists protest against chess as 'racist'

[Natalinasmpf]

I know...one side should be made of positrons, the other electrons...

[Al B. Sure!]

what the hell are positrons? there are neutrons, electrons, and PROTONS in atoms.

[Patroklos]

What about the ions, racists.

[Natalinasmpf]

what the hell are positrons? there are neutrons, electrons, and PROTONS in atoms.

But what about ANTI-ATOMS in ANTIMATTER?

Every particle has an anti-particle.

Protons AREN'T positrons - because positrons have 1/1760 the mass of a proton, even though they have a charge of +1. Positrons have the same mass and spin of an electron, except the charge is different.

Because a positron is the antiparticle of the electron. An anti-neutron is the anti-particle of a neutron, same thing for anti-protons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiparticle

In fact light is made out of two particles - a positron and an electron. Attracted by charge, equilibrated by centrifrugal force. Eventually the whole topic of annihilation, virtual particles and the more finer points of interaction leads into quantum physics, I believe.

http://www.lighttheory.com/proposed.htm

Apparently the whole properties of these particles and the actual workings delve into stuff like weak and strong nuclear forces and gluon charges, which I have yet to understand. However, I just made the remark since positrons and electrons generate photons which can make a unified colour...

Don't discriminate by colour....diversify by charge! Unify as one!

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ancyrean


I see the point. But was there ever a time in European history when the church and the state was not seperate? I mean, there was always a pope and a caesar, and sure at different times one or the other was the dominant factor in politics/policy making, but AFAIK there was never a time when the church and the state were not seperate.

Would my interpretation of the relation between the pope and caesar (church and state) be wrong/inaccurate? That would directly relate to the "bishops would count as lords on the battlefield" explanation.

during the feudal era bishops and abbots had fiefs - land held from the king in return for military support - just as did secular lords. Many kings preferred having clerical vassals, as they could influence the selection of a bishoprics next bishop, or an abbeys next abbor, whereas most secular lordships were hereditary, thus making those lords more independent. The military force of a bishop or abbot consisted of knights on lands that the said cleric had given out, in subvassalage. They were led by a designated secular official - i forget the name for the term. In some cases though bishops and abbots DID lead their vassals on the field of battle, though technically in violation of church law.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

- any fool can be called a narr) in Swedish -

ditto for Yiddish. Foolishness is Narishkeit.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III



I've seen a chess board in Venice with rabbis and Christian priests sold at the Jewish "ghetto"(tm). Those antisemitic bastards in the ghetto. The Rabbis were in black!

a black jewish alliance of course - its the pre-60's civil rights movement

[Flubber]

Its a game people

At high levels, white does win more often than black due to the initiative of the first move. Some players would assert that the initiative of the first move is worth about half the value of a pawn. Among all but the elite, there are more than enough outright errors to make up for this advantage. Among the elite, there are actually a very high number of games that end in a draw

In a tournament a player will play equal number so f white and black pieces (or as close to equal as is possible)

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ancyrean

Also, what about the bishop? Sure, there were warrior monks in military history, but were they an integral part of armies as fighting forces in history? If you imagine the chess piece bishop ravaging the board, what's that correspond to? A regiment of crazed monks with longswords? Or a crazed regiment of I don't know what led by a bishop? Too much of a strech of imagination .

I don't know the phraseology in Eastern countries but at least in Turkish that piece is called "the Elephant" (Fil).

As for racism in chess, that's totally absurd .

The first bishop depicted in a European chess set is I believe the bishop in the set from the Isle of Lewis:

http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/compass/ixbin/goto?id=OBJ566

Certainly during the conflicts between Celts and Vikings, and Romano-Britons and Saxons, the clergy would play a martial role at times.

In Ireland, abbots could go to war (and did) against other abbeys or monasteries whose lands or resources they desired. Naturally, you could always blame the Vikings for this, as Christian Irish would employ Scandiavian mercenaries in these encounters, as did Christian kings.


Christian chroniclers (frequently monks) would then record what happened showing their abbot in the most flattering light.

Given this history, it then comes as less of a surprise to see a bishop in the ranks of the more powerful pieces in a set coming from an area where Christian fought pagan, and where Scandinavian culture and Celtic culture formed a new hybrid culture.

There is one rook shown biting the top of his shield - you can just imagine him desperate to get into battle and start shedding blood.

The queen looks monumentally bored.....

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Lewis_chessmen

http://www.eudesign.com/chessops/basics/cpr-hist.htm

[:) Smiley]

That's some real work of art.

On a side note, why don't modern weapons such as tanks come in elaborate cermonial versions that swords used to?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
Don't discriminate by colour....diversify by charge! Unify as one!

Pah, uncouth barbarian.

Don't you know quarks come with colour charges?

[Ancyrean]

LotM and Molly Bloom: Thanks for the explanations . The picture now makes much more sense to me.

Talking about the subject and reading over my own incredulity over why which pieces are named what, i now realise it should come only natural that a game as popular as chess gets adopted to the culture of wherever it's introduced to.

Since we Turks got the chess from the Persians and Arabs, and since our religion and political concepts are same/similar, we largely kept the middle eastern terminology: in Turkish, the king is "Þah", queen is "Vezir", rook is "kalé" (castle), bishop is elephant, and the knight is "at" (the horse-pronounced as utt as in utter). Particulary in light of what I read in response to my question, it's equally natural that the Western Christendom adopted the game according to its own circumstance and culture (in self criticism, I'd now say what would in fact be incredulous is to have Christian Europe to use the name vizier, or the elephant).

Why I say all this is that chess is one of my favourite games and I used to devote a good deal of time and effort in it (studying openings, examining variants, solving puzzles and such). With books in both Turkish and English in my library, it now occurs to me that I actually sometimes conceptualise the pieces as, say, "the bishop", and at other times as "the elephant" (probably depending on with whom I'm playing) .

By the way Molly, upon reading the links you posted, I also remembered Chessmaster 9000 has a 3D Island of Lewis Chessmen set!

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ancyrean


By the way Molly, upon reading the links you posted, I also remembered Chessmaster 9000 has a 3D Island of Lewis Chessmen set!

If you ever get thechance (assuming you haven't been already) go to the British Museum and look at the pieces- I think they are absolutely charming, especially the seemingly insignificant details- the champing on the shield, the Queen's head slumped against her hand (I love her expression- "Are we going to war again?")
the long shield of the mounted knight so reminiscent of the Normans' depicted on the Bayeux tapestry.

I like finding art related to chess anywhere, and books too- I think Nabokov wrote two novels devoted to chess, although I can remember only 'The Defence' and there is also a Jacobean tragedy by Thomas Middleton called 'A Game At Chess' and an episode of 'The Prisoner' with chess played with real people on a huge board.

[Al B. Sure!]

'The Prisoner' with chess played with real people on a huge board.

like on the Simpsons!

[Ancyrean]

Originally posted by molly bloom


If you ever get thechance (assuming you haven't been already) go to the British Museum and look at the pieces- I think they are absolutely charming, especially the seemingly insignificant details- the champing on the shield, the Queen's head slumped against her hand (I love her expression- "Are we going to war again?")
the long shield of the mounted knight so reminiscent of the Normans' depicted on the Bayeux tapestry.

I like finding art related to chess anywhere, and books too- I think Nabokov wrote two novels devoted to chess, although I can remember only 'The Defence' and there is also a Jacobean tragedy by Thomas Middleton called 'A Game At Chess' and an episode of 'The Prisoner' with chess played with real people on a huge board.

I've been to BM some 7 years ago but I only had time to see famous highlights, Egyptian stuff and such...Back then I was not aware of the Lewis set anyway... But next time, I'll keep it in mind definitely .

It doesn't count as art at all, but I remember in Star Wars episode IV (?) 3PO was playing some kind of holo-chess with Chewy . On a more obscure note, your mention of 'the Prisoner' episode (which I didn't see) reminded me of yet another scene, but in the Conan the Barbarian comic series (does anybody remember Conan? ). There, there was this king playing chess with a foreign dignitary on a huge board with real people, and the "pieces" had to actually kill eachother if a piece "took" another. He was casually chatting with Conan I guess as he carelessly lost his queen, who was run through by a knight after just having stabbed a pawn-dude...