John Kerry the Betrayer: Unfit to Command, part 3

[Spiffor]

Yup.

But it is interesting to see the reactons of American voters discussing the issue. It sure brings much light to my poli-sci courses

[GePap]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I completely agree with the Mickey Kaus quote.

That smear campaign would be nothing if Kerry wasn't so damn empty.

Kerry should be campaigning on the grounds of "I'm not George Bush" (who has a discernable, and highly dislikeable personality), instead of lying or exagerating about things that could be easily blown away.

We don't know if he has hyped anything regarding his medals- so I don't see why people now assume he did.

On his record- he has the problem all senators running for prez. do: they have no executive record to claim as their own-only legislative record. I see people saying Kerry is running from his senate record but then, the layman wouold not understand it much, or care right now. I mean, GWB barely ran with his "record in texas", and he was a two term governor of one of the biggest states in the country (well, that and the point the Governor of texas is a weak post relative to other governors).

[GePap]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Not if Kerry keeps acting hysterical about it.

The republican convetion and its fall-out will suck the media oxygen to such an extent this story will lose much of its potency.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by GePap
We don't know if he has hyped anything regarding his medals- so I don't see why people now assume he did.

He is a politician. He saw his war record as an advantage, and he spun it and exaggerated it to get support. That's an ordinary move.

That he used his war record as one of his main electoral arguments (if not the main one) shows that he overuses it as a political resource. This always means spin, and half-truths.

[Patroklos]

3 PHs in four months, a silver star, and a bronze star in four months and we let this guy go home. He should have single handedly won the war. Probobly have 4 medals of honor after a full tour.

The fact that there are not war monuments to him (except in Vietnam of course) all over the place is proof he exaggerated. Those kinds of medals simply are not awarded like that. Unless you gamed the system.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Agathon
This will all have died out in 2 weeks.

Don't be so sure. SBV have already planned dribs and drabs advertising to continue in September and October. They are not going to let it die.

To the extent it is ignored by media may be a different matter.

[Agathon]

Not if Kerry keeps acting hysterical about it.

He hasn't. He's made it clear that he's pissed off, and that is what anyone would expect.

These clowns did it too early. Their case is so shaky that it will be effectively destroyed in the coming weeks, and that will make Bush look bad. It would have been over already if the media had any spine. But they seem to think that both sides of a debate should get a fair hearing all the time, instead of only when one side isn't obviously full of ****, which is the case here (and yes, it's the anti-Kerry group that is FOS).

[Agathon]

Make no mistake, I would rather see Bush elected. Then the rest of the world will realize that it has to band together to Gulliverize the US. When that's finished, common sense can prevail again.

[Patroklos]

Yeah, I am sure that is exactly what will happen

[GePap]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/25/politics/campaign/25CND-SWIF.html?hp

Bush Campaign's Top Outside Lawyer Resigns
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: August 25, 2004

WASHINGTON -- An election lawyer for President Bush who also has been advising a veterans group running TV ads against Democrat John Kerry resigned Wednesday from Bush's campaign.

"I cannot begin to express my sadness that my legal representations have become a distraction from the critical issues at hand in this election," Benjamin Ginsberg wrote in a resignation letter to Bush released by the campaign.

"I feel I cannot let that continue, so I have decided to resign as national counsel to your campaign to ensure that the giving of legal advice to decorated military veterans, which was entirely within the boundaries of the law, doesn't distract from the real issues upon which you and the country should be focusing."

Ginsberg's acknowledgment Tuesday evening that he was providing legal advice to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth marked the second time in days that an individual associated with the Bush-Cheney campaign had been connected to the group, which Kerry accuses of being a front for the Republican incumbent's re-election effort.

The Bush campaign and the veterans' group have said repeatedly that there is no coordination, and the campaign repeated that statement Tuesday.

Lawyers on the Democratic side are also representing both the campaign or party and outside groups running ads in the presidential race at the same time. Ginsberg's dual role has drawn attention because the Swift Boat Veterans group ran an ad accusing Kerry of exaggerating his Vietnam War record, an issue that has dominated the campaign since early August.

Kerry has fired back by accusing Bush of using the group as a front to run a smear campaign for him. Democrats have jumped on any tie, even if legal, to back up that claim.

Now only if top adivsers to the Bush campaign stop advsing these guys, these silly rumors of collusion will go away.

[Agathon]

Yeah, I am sure that is exactly what will happen

Why do you think so many generals and former diplomats have come out in support of Kerry? They know that the US is most effective at getting its own way by means of traditional diplomacy. Clinton was a master at that - something he gets too little credit for.

They aren't socialists, communists, liberal internationalists or people who want the US to prostrate itself before the world. They seem to me to be people who wish to preserve and enhance American influence in the world, and they are smart enough to know that Bush is doing his best to destroy it.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Ginsberg had to be the fall guy. Its surprising that likewise Joe Sandler who represents DNC and Moveon.org is not likewsie called to resign.

Realistically legal advice is required in order to understand the ramifications of the 527 code and what can and can not be said. Shame that both parties are complicit in offering that advice to the 527's as they appear to have sown up the few lawyers truly in the know wrt to the code.

We'll see if Sandler is called on the carpet. My guess is not.

[Jon Miller]

what did clinton try to get from others?

maybe he could hvae been a master, but I never saw him convince the world to go a way it didn't want to go

Jon Miller

[GePap]

Advising the DNC and a 527 is slightly (slightly) different from advising a 527 and the actual campaign of a candidate. While the DNC obviously is pro-Kerry, they don;t run his campaign, or any other campaign directly.

[Ming]

And buried at the tail end of the story...

Lawyers on the Democratic side are also representing both the campaign or party and outside groups running ads in the presidential race at the same time

I love how people are pointing fingers, trying to take the moral high ground, when they are doing the exact same thing...

I guess it's too much to ask for this campaign to be fought on the "issues"... but nah, we are talking about the good ole USA here