John Kerry the Betrayer: Unfit to Command, part 3

[GePap]

Originally posted by Patroklos


:sigh:

Okay, I will hold your hand. MILITARY VOTERS.

Its alright, like I said you are having a bad day.

The people who are hurt most by the amdins. mistakes are comon Iraqis- they don;t like him that much.

As for troops IN Iraq, I don't really know how popular he really is amongs them.

Care to show numbers about Bush's support among troops in Iraq?

As for MIlitary voters- they certainly are not "the group hurt most by his mistakes"

I could send you a care package of logic textbooks.

[Patroklos]

Well GePap, this is where you go beyond the scope of what you could possibly know.

I was there, Bush is doing fine. And tell me how your daily life has changed since the war started. Participating in any meatless Monday's? Enjoying your gas ration? Your daily routine has not changed one bit. Of course all the military families with surged loved ones are not fairing so well...

[GePap]

Originally posted by Patroklos


No (well maybe a little), but what it does do is make you owe me your life, liberty, and freedom. I don't need your respect

Oh yes, there you are protecting me from that evil AQ navy! Please....

You know, folks in Costa Rica live in peace and liberty- they don;t even have a military. They also don;t have enemies. So lets just say- you are both part of the porblem, and the solution, and hence, I deserve to blame you as much as thank you, so in the end, you average out to 0.

But that is just a fine score for you.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Don't we have a generalization here? Reagan significantly boosted your economy, and Bush Sr. was an excellent diplomat.

I didn't follow enough American campaigns to know if the tactics are the same since the 60's (actually, I thought the smear fashion really begun with the Lewinsky affair). I had the impression the Bush admin introduced a very different tone compared to before, only similar to Reaganite or MacCarthyite periods.

No. The republican economic record has been horible for twenty-five years. People wake up!!! Tickle down economics is patently false. Regan practically destroyed our economy in the early 1980's (unemplyment was in double digits until early 1983) and their lazze-fair approach to government at times borders on criminal. Bush Jr has only intensified a Republican agenda that has been in place since the Nixon administration (of which most of Jr's advisors, including Cheaney and Rove, belonged to)

[GePap]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Well GePap, this is where you go beyond the scope of what you could possibly know.

I was there, Bush is doing fine. And tell me how your daily life has changed since the war started. Participating in any meatless Monday's? Enjoying your gas ration? Your daily routine has not changed one bit. Of course all the military families with surged loved ones are not fairing so well...

You keep thinking I should thank you for anything? That is the mindset I pity.

You are a cog in a machine, the machine of the state. So am I, and so are the tax payers. The state will always have a military, whether people join voluntarily, OR NOT. You might as well ask common Chinese to thank the PRC army for keeping those evil japanese bastards out and fighting the terrorists.

Short answer-GET OVER YOURSELF.

Oh, and anyone who cares about military families must have some cognisant disonance or something to support Bush, given his horrible tract record of letting these families fend for themselves while men are kept well beyond their tours of duty in order to save a few bucks.

[GePap]

To simplify my postiong vis a vi servicemen and veterans:

I think they deserve support from the state for their service and for making sacrifices for the state after their duty, and their families also deserve support. But they are in the end agents of the state, whose duty is to carry out policy of the state.

In that sense, while I can respect them, they hold no higher position to the state and in the state than any other citizen. In most states in fact any citizen can be expected to join. Here in the US we made military service voluntary because it creates a self-selecting pool that in the end performs better. But the state will always have a military one way or another. It is simply a part of living in the modern era. So in the end, I owe as much to my fellow taxpaying citizen as I do to anyone else, since it is the taxpayers that support the state that creates a military to enforce it's policy.

And it is a perversion of democracy to think servicepeople or veterans should hold a post any higher than John Q public. That is certainly what the founding fathers would have said.

[Patroklos]

Oh yes, there you are protecting me from that evil AQ navy! Please....

I am sure the Somolies won't mind not having those three hundred assault rifles and machine guns roaming thie country. And I bet Iraq likes having their oil platforms still there (got some good pics). And of course all the other things we do that you can't ever know, bieng a less important cog in the machine. Fore like a floor tac. Maybe a paint chip?

You keep thinking I should thank you for anything? That is the mindset I pity.

Your thanks, what would I need that for? Thanks from Gepap, worth about jack. In fact your disddain for me, considering who you are and what you represent, is all the thanks I might have needed.

GET OVER YOURSELF!

[GePap]

Oh, you try so hard.

Your thanks, what would I need that for? Thanks from Gepap, worth about jack. In fact your disddain for me, considering who you are and what you represent, is all the thanks I might have needed.

He he..

"What I represent"? I wonder how you could have taken your oath in good faith if you seem to disdain the very basic freedoms the Constitution makes possible?

Oh, and what I represent is the citizentry of the United States. Its sad to know you disdain your fellow contrymen. Should someone like you really be in the military?

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by GePap

Nixon lost the home front when his lie about Cambodia came out, and after events like at Kent State.

Cambodia was invaded, and the Kent state debacle occurred in 1970.

Nixon was re-elected 1971 with 520 electoral votes. So much for losing the home front.

Just the facts maam. Just the facts.

[Patroklos]

In that sense, while I can respect them, they hold no higher position to the state and in the state than any other citizen. In most states in fact any citizen can be expected to join. Here in the US we made military service voluntary because it creates a self-selecting pool that in the end performs better. But the state will always have a military one way or another. It is simply a part of living in the modern era. So in the end, I owe as much to my fellow taxpaying citizen as I do to anyone else, since it is the taxpayers that support the state that creates a military to enforce it's policy.

Just a little inferiority complex on your part.

Now you might make sence if you were willing to serve if needed, but you probobly aren't. So it is not an equal disparity between us, I am willing to do more for the state and thus its citizens, while you want to do nothing but use the benefits given you by living here to benefit yourself. I do too, but my work also benefits you, the private citizen. For this reason all civil servants, not just military members, are morally above the private citizen. Which is all intangable because we foolishly give sufferage away to everyone for free, making it by definition worthless.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Patroklos
I am sure the Somolies won't mind not having those three hundred assault rifles and machine guns roaming thie country. And I bet Iraq likes having their oil platforms still there (got some good pics). And of course all the other things we do that you can't ever know, bieng a less important cog in the machine. Fore like a floor tac. Maybe a paint chip?

Oh, another cute quote- you are full of them.

Last time I looked, Saddam's military did a fine job keeping Iraq's oil platforms safe. What were they doing right? And before the collapse of the dictatorship in 1991, the Somali navy (if they had any) did a fine job keeping away unwanted weapons (though in reality, there was no such thing).

OHHH< and secret stuff! How Bond, James Bond...so, do you prefer shaken or stirred

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by GePap


What a pathetic ad. Ohhh, you felt bad about protesters-well, why the **** should I care?

The thing is, this ad much better exemplifies the reason for this campaign- men stuck in 1971 reliving their nightmares, but more importantly, thinking that their sacrifice somehow had to be lauded by the people. It didn't.

I generally do feel sad for these guys-thinking that the validation for their sufferings had to come from strangers and outsiders. Why? The people owed them respect, but thats it They did not owe them anything else. To think people should not have stated the truth as they saw it becuase men were being held prisoners of war is absurd beyond belief- it is a perversion of democracy, which is the ability to change policy even in the worse of times-perhaps specially there.

John Kerry did the right thing by speaking out against a war he saw as damaging to the US. Too bad these men thought wrongly he owed them anything more than respect. Hopefully they can get over their hangup some day, because if they don;t, they will die embittered men.

As a private citizen kerry would have the right to say what he wanted but he was a naval officer (reserve) until 1978. His perversion of the truth before congress was treason.

[Patroklos]

oath

Nothing in there that says I have to like you. In fact, it shows how well I follow it by defending you anways.

Seriously, your like that Jepordy guy that is at negative 10,000, give it up.

And if you were right GePap, why would anyone, including Kerry, give a damn about military records. It seems your the minority opinion.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Just a little inferiority complex on your part.

Now you might make sence if you were willing to serve if needed, but you probobly aren't. So it is not an equal disparity between us, I am willing to do more for the state and thus its citizens, while you want to do nothing but use the benefits given you by living here to benefit yourself. I do too, but my work also benefits you, the private citizen. For this reason all civil servants, not just military members, are morally above the private citizen. Which is all intangable because we foolishly give sufferage away to everyone for free, making it by definition worthless.

Well, one thing: I am a civil servant myself- I even do my jury duty GASP! (didn't Sun Tzu talk about knowing your enemy?)

But to move on: The idea of the United States of America is that all men are equal-heck, in fact before the only limist of voting were those of land ownership, not military service. I mean, look at our founders-how many were military men? One. The rest hardly ever served, if at all, and our second greatest military hero of that generation was a traitor. America was not founded upon amartial spirit-there was more than enough of that in the Monarchies we left (born out of a feudal system that worshiped the warrior)- it was founded out of the spirit of the merchant classes.

In fact, the militaristic attitude you embody is very new to the US, or even the world. This notion of making the veteran as reveared-when at the point were war was a contant, fighting men were seen in a terrible light.

I would make for a fine discussion to find when we begun to put all veterans on pedestals

[Patroklos]

secret stuff

Thats the thing G, it isn't secret. You just are not inclined to ever want to know it.

And I am much better looking than Bond.

Last time I looked, Saddam's military did a fine job keeping Iraq's oil platforms safe. What were they doing right? And before the collapse of the dictatorship in 1991, the Somali navy (if they had any) did a fine job keeping away unwanted weapons (though in reality, there was no such thing).

Yeah, they did G, but he also killed a few tens of thounsads of Iraqis a year. And of course none of that oil benefited anyone by Saddam. Your getting shaky man, really you need to get some help.

As for the Somali Navy, your right, apparently according to you Somalis can pull thousands of fire arms from thin air.

You done thread jacking now? Grown ups here have a topic to discuss.