See What Porn Can Do To A Once Respectable Person

[Whaleboy]

problem_child, if you've never had a relationship with a dominatrix, I think it's probably best that you shut the hell up seeing as how you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[problem_child]

If you have a clue what you're talking about because you've had a relationship with a dominatrix, then enlighten me, why close down the discussion with needless attitude? What's wrong with forums that people can't just talk about stuff and knock opinion back an forth anymore... everytthing has to be "I don't like what you're saying so fock off and die you full of sh!t bastard!!!!"

Like I said, maybe I am wrong, but that is the impression I get from the whole Dominatrix thing. Why does a woman who likes to be boss in bed have to be called Dominatrix anyway, why the label... when men who like to be the boss don't have to carry a label... it's double standard, that's whatn I'm saying, I don't think it's an opinion that deserves to be blown out of the discussion with a bunch of aggitude. You think I'm wrong, tell me so, tell me why, challenge what I say fer chrissakes.

[Whaleboy]

If you have a clue what you're talking about because you've had a relationship with a dominatrix, then enlighten me, why close down the discussion with needless attitude? What's wrong with forums that people can't just talk about stuff and knock opinion back an forth anymore...

Because people are far too quick to shoot of with their own simplistic view of things with little or no understanding of it, they just want to give their two cents even though they're completely worthless.

Why does a woman who likes to be boss in bed have to be called Dominatrix anyway, why the label... when men who like to be the boss don't have to carry a label... it's double standard,

You say it's about women who like to be the boss, again proof of your superficial understanding of the situation. It runs far deeper, it's a tapestry of power complexes yes, but about the pain/pleasure boundary and anticipation. There are two opposing sides at work here. The tantric idea of eliminating anticipation and living in "the moment", and the S&M (sic) staple of anticipation... hence teasing, torture, pain and building up.

As for your argument, a man is almost by default "the one in power" in many womens minds and in many men as well and it would be frivolous to call attention to that again unless the woman actively wanted to be submissive, whereas with someone for whom that is not the assumed state, it needs to be reaffirmed.

"I don't like what you're saying so fock off and die you full of sh!t bastard!!!!"

It's not that I don't like what you're saying, its just painfully obvious that you've spent about half an hour at most thinking about this with nothing but a porn magazine and a copy of the communist manifesto as your basis. Have you spoken to any doms? Have you tried to work out what makes them tick? The fact that you haven't sticks out like a sore thumb and that's a pet hate of mine.

[Last Conformist]

Where I'm from, the officially sanctioned thinking is very much that neither male nor female dominance is acceptable.

[Whaleboy]

And where are you from?

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Berzerker
The fact the world saw mass murderers before porn

No such thing. Egyptians had porn millennia ago. Even pre-literate societies had pornographic idols, cave drawings, etc.

Greeks and Romans had lots of porn. In order to boost sales Roman publishers would put porn in the margins of of history or philosophy treatises.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
And where are you from?

Sweden. Quite possibly the most feminist country on the planet.

[problem_child]

Whaleboy

Because people are far too quick to shoot of with their own simplistic view of things with little or no understanding of it, they just want to give their two cents even though they're completely worthless.

anyone can say that of somebody elses opinions,
'I don't like what you think so your opinions are totally simplistic and completely worthless'. *shrug*

It runs far deeper, it's a tapestry of power complexes yes, but about the pain/pleasure boundary and anticipation. There are two opposing sides at work here. The tantric idea of eliminating anticipation and living in "the moment", and the S&M (sic) staple of anticipation... hence teasing, torture, pain and building up.

As for your argument, a man is almost by default "the one in power" in many womens minds and in many men as well and it would be frivolous to call attention to that again unless the woman actively wanted to be submissive, whereas with someone for whom that is not the assumed state, it needs to be reaffirmed.

why didn't you just counter with this in the first place, a statement that may enlighten my obviously backward and simplistic understanding of things I obviously have no right to have an opinion about, not being your esteemed self

It's not that I don't like what you're saying, its just painfully obvious that you've spent about half an hour at most thinking about this with nothing but a porn magazine and a copy of the communist manifesto as your basis. Have you spoken to any doms? Have you tried to work out what makes them tick? The fact that you haven't sticks out like a sore thumb and that's a pet hate of mine.

I qualified everything I said with the caveat "In my opinion", I did not say I was a sex-doctor, or that I had studied these things at length, or anything of the sort. I was under the impression that I am allowed to express an opinion on things, this being a discussion forum afterall... I would like to meet someone who describes herself as a 'Dominatrix', but I have not had that honor. However I do live in a culture where the dominatrix-image or thing is commonly used and represented, I think I have a right to form opinions about things that are common to my cultural environment. I'm also not a rocket scientist, or xeno-biologist or President, but I have opinions about space-exploration and the existance of alien-life and the foreign policies of various governments.

Come The Day, I'm suyre I may be lined up along with other insolent upstarts and shot, untill then this ignorant peasant intends to continue to share his opinions with those who are interested in opinions.

[Straybow]

Originally posted by molly bloom
Why don't people take responsibility for their own actions?

Don't ever say, 'yes, I knew that battering a woman to death whilst raping her was wrong, but gee, 'Hustler' made me do it' because it sounds so lame.

Try reading what Bundy said.

Some abused children grow up to be abusers, and some men and women who mistreat others use porn.

But they also drink alcohol, watch television, read the Bible, eat sugary snacks and fatty foods, and wear stretch polyester.

Sugar or fat or stretch polyester don't induce or inculcate thoughts of sexual or violent nature. Even alcohol doesn't. The Bible doesn't deal with sexuality in explicit or non-euphemistic language.

Porn does. That's its purpose. I doubt you have an honest interview with Sutcliffe or Nilson to support your point, but even if you did no one is claiming that only porn stimulates the serial killer's appetites.

[Whaleboy]

anyone can say that of somebody elses opinions,
'I don't like what you think so your opinions are totally simplistic and completely worthless'. *shrug*

Thats a complete misrepresentation. I don't like your opinions BECAUSE they are simplistic, not thought out and thus completely worthless, not "SO they are".

why didn't you just counter with this in the first place, a statement that may enlighten my obviously backward and simplistic understanding of things I obviously have no right to have an opinion about, not being your esteemed self

Because frankly a simple refutation would not suffice to show you the erroneous nature of your views. If someone came up to me and said "the world is flat", would I resort to laughing in his face or lengthy, ponderous cogitations to prove that 2500 years of science are correct? And don't play the "OMG he's questioning my right to air an opinion" crap with me. I've studied that right more than you've studied "Senor Manana's: Reasoning for the illiterate revolutionary" so don't pull that crap here and read what I wrote.

I qualified everything I said with the caveat "In my opinion", I did not say I was a sex-doctor, or that I had studied these things at length, or anything of the sort.

And yet you present it as the truth. If you include that caveat, be descriptive, not prescriptive.

However I do live in a culture where the dominatrix-image or thing is commonly used and represented, I think I have a right to form opinions about things that are common to my cultural environment.

Then consider this your 101. When studying something cultural or sociological do not interpret on face value, the key is in the premise... it is more of an investigation than a truism.

I'm also not a rocket scientist, or xeno-biologist or President, but I have opinions about space-exploration and the existance of alien-life and the foreign policies of various governments.

None of which can be taken seriously if they are woefully flawed as the one you have displayed here, for which your lack of experience is clearly a cause, no offense to yoru ability to form opinions but garbage in, garbage out.

Come The Day, I'm suyre I may be lined up along with other insolent upstarts and shot, untill then this ignorant peasant intends to continue to share his opinions with those who are interested in opinions.

Don't pull the "i'm being oppressed line" out here. I am irritated that you make such statements with no basis or experience, and woeful critical flaws therein, and then proclaim them as your opinion when in essense you state them as fact. A caveat doesn't cut it when their argument contradicts it.

[Last Conformist]

Is it only me, or does Whaleboy seem to be taking this rather personally?

[Ming]

I think some people need to chill...

Remember, discuss the topic... NOT THE POSTERS...

Enough with the insults and crap... keep it civil!

[problem_child]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
Is it only me, or does Whaleboy seem to be taking this rather personally?

To be honest, I don't see what the guys problem is.

Anyhoo

I stand by my opinion. S&M is one thing, not everyone who is into S&M necessarily goes for the whole cat-suit wearing, whip brandishing Dominatrix thing, but the Dominatrix thing itself, the costumes and the Madame Whats'hername stuff... I seriously don't think that whole image is a true representation of female sexual power, I see it as cartoon-like. Just another caricature along with the Village-Peoples YMCA boys and the French Maid outfit.

Pornography featuring a woman in an empowered role does not necessarily mean a Dominatrix.

Therefore porn doesn't need to feature women as sex-objects or as Dominatrixes, and isn't always just 'one more mucky male fantasy that demeans and objectifies women'.

(Of course some women want to be a sex-object sometimes, or a Dominatrix etc... )

Back to point, this means that the answer to the question "Are you into porn" is irrelevent to the making of serial-killers or even disrespect toward women. the answer to "What kind of porn are you into" or "What do you see when you look at this image" is far more enlightening... and a persons taste in porn, or interpretation of a pornographic image, isn't going to be greatly inluenced by Playboy for instance.

There's alot of breadth out there, blaming 'porn' for anything is effectively meaningless. Not that I'm really really into porn or anything I'm just saying.

[Last Conformist]

I don't really disagree with any of that. It would however seem that the tastes of most Western men who are into porn are for kinds that demean women (assuming that portrayal as passive sex objects or as dominatrices is demeaning).

[problem_child]

I agree, and yeah- assuming.