Who owns Hans Island?

[Kuciwalker]

The Danes haven't made a claim. They simply haven't recognized Canada's claim.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
The Canadians could do a seaborne resupply just as well as the Danes. They both have icebreakers; the Canadian ones simply aren't armed. Armaments are moot in the face of airpower in this case.

Read the whole thread.

Only the coast guard has ice breakers, the Canadian Navy does not. Furthermore, due to budget cutbacks, the coast guard can only operate those ice breakers for a short period of the year.

And again, and again, and again, there's not going to be fighting, so airpower is worthless. Its not going to happen, the Canadian Government says its not going to happen, get it through your head.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

The Danes haven't made a claim. They simply haven't recognized Canada's claim.

Kuci, you need to start reading:

"In our opinion Hans Island is part of Danish territory, but the Canadians seem to hold the view the island is theirs," Head of Department of International Public Law at Denmark's Foreign Ministry, Peter Taksoe-Jensen, told Reuters on Wednesday.

http://home.eircom.net/content/reuters/worldnews/2917278?view=Eircomnet

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Kuci, Krazy is wrong. He knows he's wrong, he was just purposely being an ass at the end. Don't mimic his arguments because it shows how ill informed you are.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
Read the whole thread.

I've been reading it.

Only the coast guard has ice breakers, the Canadian Navy does not.

Maybe... the navy could... you know... borrow them?

And again, and again, and again, there's not going to be fighting, so airpower is worthless. Its not going to happen, the Canadian Government says its not going to happen, get it through your head.

If there isn't going to be fighting, then armed icebreakers are worthless too!

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
Read the whole thread.

I've been reading it.

Only the coast guard has ice breakers, the Canadian Navy does not.

Maybe... the navy could... you know... borrow them?

And again, and again, and again, there's not going to be fighting, so airpower is worthless. Its not going to happen, the Canadian Government says its not going to happen, get it through your head.

If there isn't going to be fighting, then armed icebreakers are worthless too!

Ok, think of it this way. Stationing an unarmed CG vessel by the island makes about as much of a point as sending up a rowboat. Flying jets by the island, which aren't going to shoot, send zero message other than that Canada has planes, which everyone knows already. Paradropping troops on the island is confrontational, especially since both sides claim the Island, so its not going to happen.

Sending an armed, ice breaking frigate to the waters surrounding the Island, like the Danes have done, allows Canada to maintain a large, strong, long term presence in the area, without actually going as far as starting a conflict because there isn't going to be a war.

This is precisely why the Gov. of Canada has tentative plans to send up a Frigate with a crew of 200 so they can conduct military exercises in the area, and prove to the world that Canada can, in fact, exercise sovereignty over land we supposedly claim as our own.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Basically, the formula is this: Power + Longterm - confrontational = we own this place and are friendly and non-aggressive.

Planes are not longterm (couple of minutes), and paradropping troops is confrontational.

Edit: Look up what gunboat diplomacy means.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Maybe... the navy could... you know... borrow them?

Borrowing costs money, which we don't have... at least allocated towards defence.

[Ted Striker]

Hand the island over to Ted Striker

Nobody gets hurt

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
Ok, think of it this way. Stationing an unarmed CG vessel by the island makes about as much of a point as sending up a rowboat.

Fine, so Canada can send an icebreaker to clear a channel and one of the Halifax frigates can follow behind it. Happy now.

The idea of building ice-breaking frigates for the RCN is crazy. It would be a complete waste of money and it would reduce the ship's operational abilities. There is no need for Cdn navy frigates to have icebreaking capabilities because we have purpose-designed icebreakers.

Denmark does not have icebreakers and that's why their frigates have limited ice-breaking capabilities.

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
Flying jets by the island, which aren't going to shoot, send zero message other than that Canada has planes, which everyone knows already. Paradropping troops on the island is confrontational, especially since both sides claim the Island, so its not going to happen.

So sending a warship, which isn't going to shoot anything, to Hans Island is not confrontational, transporting troops by sea and landing them on a Canadian island is not confrontation, but air-dropping troops, who would not going to shoot anything, is confrontational? Lovely logic.

[Tingkai]

By the way JCC, if you want to be a Canadian, you'll have to start talking hockey.

[Winston]

We have a handful of powerful icebreakers, although I'll admit they're permanently stationed down here in the mainland, European, whatchamacallem waters.

They're only needed once every five years, but we've got 'em.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
Borrowing costs money, which we don't have... at least allocated towards defence.

You don't have to pay the coast guard

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
Ok, think of it this way. Stationing an unarmed CG vessel by the island makes about as much of a point as sending up a rowboat. Flying jets by the island, which aren't going to shoot, send zero message other than that Canada has planes, which everyone knows already. Paradropping troops on the island is confrontational, especially since both sides claim the Island, so its not going to happen.

Sending an armed, ice breaking frigate to the waters surrounding the Island, like the Danes have done, allows Canada to maintain a large, strong, long term presence in the area, without actually going as far as starting a conflict because there isn't going to be a war.

This is precisely why the Gov. of Canada has tentative plans to send up a Frigate with a crew of 200 so they can conduct military exercises in the area, and prove to the world that Canada can, in fact, exercise sovereignty over land we supposedly claim as our own.

I don't think you quite understand the concept of sending planes there...

for one, you can have regular patrols. I'm sure at least some of your planes patrol regularly; have them fly around the island. Long-term presence.

Moreover, simply having planes within striking distance of the island, on short notice, is a long-term presence.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Winston
We have a handful of powerful icebreakers, although I'll admit they're permanently stationed down here in the mainland, European, whatchamacallem waters.

They're only needed once every five years, but we've got 'em.

According to the Danish Polarcentre (www.dpc.dk):
"For work in Arctic and Antarctic marine areas icebreakers are indispensable. Neither Denmark nor Greenland have icebreakers of sufficient classification in these waters, so researchers from these countries will depend on the research opportunities that become available onboard other nations' icebreakers."