WTO makes progress in cutting farm subsidies

[KrazyHorse]

He means the Euro/American family farmer

It won't be any less deadly.

They'll die a quick death and I'll do a little dance.

[KrazyHorse]

1. Family farming has a good reason to live, as it is much more fit at producing high quality products than industrial farming. Pretty much all the good food I could taste came from family farms, and for a reason

Are you willing to pay more for it? If so, then what's the problem? They'll survive on higher prices for their produce

2. I'm not keen of letting the countryside become completely desert. But then again, I don't live in the second largest country in the world, where it is normal to have huge areas completely devoid of settlements.

Why not? More land for trees...

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ramo
Their produce is more valuable; they can sell it in their local markets either to be consumed domestically (which is a more viable option now that their markets aren't flooded with these goods) or to be exported.

Huh? Why in the world would their markets not be flooded by our products anymore? Are the subsidies the only reason why we flood their markets?

[KrazyHorse]

God, I hate farm subsidies.

They've been milking them for almost two goddamn generations.

This is not a goddamn transition; it's a goddamn scam...

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Huh? Why in the world would their markets not be flooded by our products anymore? Are the subsidies the only reason why we flood their markets?

Given that 65% of the average Euro farmer's income comes from subsidies, yes.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
He means the Euro/American family farmer

Nope, in this occurence, I meant the third world family farmer.

[KrazyHorse]

Then your point makes no sense.

[Spiffor]

How does it make no sense, when I say the competion will be as deadly, except that the face of the competitors will change?

[Ramo]

Transportation costs, Spiff. It costs money for a good to get from Iowa to Brazil, especially if it's perishable. The only reason why Western agribusinesses are exporting so much is because of the agrisubsidies.

[KrazyHorse]

How is it that you will reduce mass subsidies like the ones now in place and maintain the average cost of production?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ramo
Transportation costs, Spiff. It costs money for a good to get from Iowa to Brazil, especially if it's perishable. The only reason why Western agribusinesses are exporting so much is because of the agrisubsidies.

True dat.

And it is clear that western agribusinesses will lose mucho foreign markets (and probably domestic ones) in favour of non-western agribusinesses. I won't cry about it, as I couldn't care less. And this is why my point stands: the face of the competition will change. The fact that family farmers will be ****ed by it, won't.

[Ramo]

No, because the nonwestern agribusinesses won't get these massive subsidies.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
How is it that you will reduce mass subsidies like the ones now in place and maintain the average cost of production?

The competitive European AgriCorps will cut on their costs (as they'll now have the motivation to do so) by changing/pressuring suppliers, by being even more intensive -since they'll now be allowed, as the end of the subsidies would also be the end of the production quotas- and by cutting in their outrageous profits generously given by the EU.

Granted, the marginal aspects of the costs of production (wages and transportation, which can't be compressed) will indeed reduce their competitiveness toward third world agricorps. It doesn't mean they'll be less competitive than a third world family farmer, or a first world one, for that matter.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ramo
No, because the nonwestern agribusinesses won't get these massive subsidies.

Yes, but they'll be the ones that are mechanized, they'll be the ones that have lands big enough to make substantial scale economies, they'll be the ones who'll have a commercial department selling the products professionally to further down the chain...

They'll be insanely more competitive than their fellow countrymen being family farmers.

[Ramo]

Agribusinesses (Western or otherwise) don't need to be less competitive than a third world farmer. A third world farmer doesn't need to be more profitable than an agribusiness to sell his products. The point, again, is that their produce will be more valuable without supply being massively inflated by our agrisubsidies.