Tax the rich!!! pt. 2

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
heres my plan

1. the bottom 50% of america (using the median income) pays 0% income taxes

Me thnks you have your terms confused. The median is higher than the mean, i.e., most folks make less than the average wage.

In any event, I disagree. Everyone should pay some taxes (except those who are so destitute that it is literally the difference between being on the street or not). If you don't pay taxes, you don't have a stake in the system. People care because it's their money going to fund various programs. It will allow demogogues to appeal to those who pay nothing yet have the most votes. In otherwords, as long as it's your money, you have an interest in how it's spent. If you don't pay in, yet you have a say over how it's spent, you have less of a reason to demand fiscal responsibility.

[Kuciwalker]

My view: taxation should be no more than a form of revenue collected so as to have minimal influence on the economy or society - taxation solely for the purpose of influencing the economy or society is not only immoral (as it really is just theft by the state, not something necessary for the state to run), but stupid and ineffective. All those loopholes in tax law are the result of Congress trying to use taxes to influence certain behavior (and usually failing miserably).

[chequita guevara]

A thesis disproved by reality, Kuci.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Geronimo
I just learned that tom ridge is considering stepping down from his job in government because his children will be attending college soon and his 175,000 dollar salary will be insufficient to cover the expenses. He says he must now enter the private sector to avoid the financial sacrifice that being employed for only 175k a year in the public sector represents. College is very expensive folks! Does it really make sense to tax parents income at 25% a year when not even 175K a year is sufficient to cover those college expenses? the overwhelming majority of the expenses of raising a family hit early on. The pain of the estate tax hits after they have been dealt with. Why oh why, do people insist that the income tax is pro-family while the estate tax is not?

Unless Ridge has 18 year old quintuplets, I find myself oddly unmoved by his plight.

[Kuciwalker]

All those loopholes that allow corporations to pay significantly lower taxes (as you claim) are the result of Congress trying to meddle.

[chequita guevara]

Generally, they are the result of lobbying on the part of those industries, and not Congress trying to influence the market.

[Kuciwalker]

Lobbying on Congress to influence the market.

Anyway, taxation as a form of coercion is a stupid idea, and betrays the entire justification for taxation (that it's necessary in order for the state to function).

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
In any event, I disagree. Everyone should pay some taxes (except those who are so destitute that it is literally the difference between being on the street or not). If you don't pay taxes, you don't have a stake in the system. People care because it's their money going to fund various programs. It will allow demogogues to appeal to those who pay nothing yet have the most votes. In otherwords, as long as it's your money, you have an interest in how it's spent. If you don't pay in, yet you have a say over how it's spent, you have less of a reason to demand fiscal responsibility.

I think you have a good point but I would add one thing. It might have more of an effect on those that wouldn't pay tax. They might feel that they have no right to demand representation. This is getting to be more and more of a problem anyway since people can't find good jobs like they used to to pay for taxes. It's up to us to help people see that social and economic justice is not only determined by tax burden.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
My view: taxation should be no more than a form of revenue collected so as to have minimal influence on the economy or society - taxation solely for the purpose of influencing the economy or society is not only immoral (as it really is just theft by the state, not something necessary for the state to run), but stupid and ineffective. All those loopholes in tax law are the result of Congress trying to use taxes to influence certain behavior (and usually failing miserably).

The sooner you have your free market the sooner we have our no market.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Kidicious


The sooner you have your free market the sooner we have our no market.

"First the Nazis, then us." Communist last-words in the early 1930s.

The lesson is, don't allow things to get worse in the hopes that they will create a radicalization. You may not like the actual results. This is why, despite my joking about voting for Bush, I have no real intention of doing so.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


"First the Nazis, then us." Communist last-words in the early 1930s.

The lesson is, don't allow things to get worse in the hopes that they will create a radicalization. You may not like the actual results. This is why, despite my joking about voting for Bush, I have no real intention of doing so.

I only hope for justice. I can't save capitalism, and either can you.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Lobbying on Congress to influence the market.

No, lobbying Congress to put more money in their pockets.

When Congress is seeking to meddle with the market, they do things like give tax credits for buying hybrid cars. They are trying to encourage something which the market can't effectively price yet.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
There's nothing wrong with being biased against rich people.

And there's nothing wrong with being biased against poor people.

[Kidlicious]

Che,

Are you afraid of capitalism collapsing and leading to fascism? Fascism seems like a minor threat when looked on over history compared to capitalism.

[chequita guevara]

Well, if we aren't prepared to take power, fascism is indeed a real threat from capitalism.