Tax the rich!!!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Not having savings but being able to have a car and a place to live and food is not poverty in my book. I don't think everyone who has to pay off their college loans is in a state of poverty.

[Geronimo]

David, am I correct in assuming that you believe that it is absolutely essential government collect the lowest taxes possible and by the most uniform means available so as to ensure that the wealth one has is a direct reflection of ones success in earning income rather than a reflection of transfers of wealth from the earnings of others? If so do you support a high and uniform death tax as an alternative to an income tax? Suppose we had an accross the board 90% death tax. When you die 90% of your earnings would go to cover government expenses and while you live you could keep all of your earnings?

It sure seems as if a lot of libertarians find the death tax to be the most repugnant and evil of all taxes, but to me it seems to fit perfectly with their ideal that tax policy should interfere with ones earnings as little as possible.

[Imran Siddiqui]

It would be too easy to get around that Geronimo. Just transfer all your money to your kids accounts before you die.

[KrazyHorse]

Tax gifts at the same rate.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by David Floyd


It doesn't punish anyone. If poor people pay a certain tax rate - say, 17% - what do they care if rich people also pay that same tax rate of 17%. It's not as if they are hurt by "the rich" having more disposable income. In fact, they are helped - "the rich" are generally the people who drive the economy and create new jobs.

Whoah, it is the rich who drive the economy? I've always heard that it is middle and lower class consumer spending which is the driving force of the modern US economy. Are you sure the wealthy consumers are the major driver of the economY??

[Imran Siddiqui]

Tax gifts at the same rate.

Then they'd find a way to make it a series of transactions. The rich and their accountants are crafty bastards .

[KrazyHorse]

Institute the death penalty for tax evasion or aiding and abetting tax evasion.

[Velociryx]

No, no and NO!

"the inability to afford an 'adequate level of consumption' (whatever that is), is a cute way of dodging the question, because what YOUR definition of 'adequate level of consumption' is, will prolly be markedly different than mine, so that definition doesn't wash. The only way you can make it wash is if we set up "watchers" in society, whose sole purpose in life is to sit back and look over everyone's shoulders to determine who's got what, and if someone starts pulling away from the pack, to rein them in by taking their stuff and giving it to somebody who has less.

Of course, that sounds eerily similar to proposals you've floated in the past, Kid.

Poverty should be defined as subsistence, or below subsistence living. It's got nothing to do with not being able to afford cable just cos the Jones' down the street have it, and it's got nothing to do with "only" having one car.

If you can't keep the lights on without robbing Peter to pay Paul, you're po'!

If you have to make a choice between paying rent and eating, you're po'!

It might be marginally harder to nail down specific numbers, but the symptoms OF poverty ain't that hard to spot. As TO those numbers, that's what we got anti-poverty think tanks and groups set up for....to determine and associate specific dollar values to go WITH those obvious signs.

Simply saying 'adequate level of consumption,' however, is a non-answer.

-=Vel=-

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

You need more than that in an advanced society.

No, not really. Otherwise, what is poverty? Under $20,000 a year? Under $30,000 a year? Under $40,000 a year? You may get 3 different answers. How do you come to any sort of consensus ever?

I'd say a family which makes $30,000 a year isn't poor, but I'm sure you'd disagree.

depends on cost of living, they may very well be poor in California.

[KrazyHorse]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=poor

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=poverty

I direct you to line 1 of the definition for poverty:

1) The state of being poor; lack of the means of providing material needs or comforts.

and line 1 of the definition for poor:

1) Having little or no wealth and few or no possessions.

[Dauphin]

Inheritance tax should be abandoned completely and leave Capital Gains tax as a standalone. All gifts (pre or post death) then have a zero cost.

Nothing like having a huge tax bill created from non-liquid assets to screw your day, especially if you are the residual legatee who has to pay the whole tax bill.

[KrazyHorse]

You can decline the assets if you want.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Tax gifts at the same rate.

Then they'd find a way to make it a series of transactions. The rich and their accountants are crafty bastards .

so what? I personally doubt that most rich people are going to be that motivated to give their wealth away while they are living. Sure many would arrange vast complex transfers of wealth seeking to bypass the death tax from their death bed but I seriously doubt this would be most americans or even most wealthy americans.

In any case this reasoning doesnt explain why there is such passionate opposition to the death tax. If it is so easy to get around it sounds like it is an even better fit with the libertarian notion of tax avoidability or 'voluntary taxation' which seems to cause them to embrace sales taxes as the least evil of taxes. So again, why do libertarians rank death tax as one of the most despicable of all taxes?

[Dauphin]

KH, you would turn a $1million house down on account of a $300,000 tax bill that has to be paid fairly promptly?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I personally doubt that most rich people are going to be that motivated to give their wealth away while they are living. Sure many would arrange vast complex transfers of wealth seeking to bypass the death tax from their death bed but I seriously doubt this would be most americans or even most wealthy americans.

Um... what do you think most wealthy Americans (as in very rich ones) do already? This is common to avoid the estate tax. They use every loophole to their advantage. Why do you think these accountants are being paid so much?

If it is so easy to get around it sounds like it is an even better fit with the libertarian notion of tax avoidability or 'voluntary taxation' which seems to cause them to embrace sales taxes as the least evil of taxes. So again, why do libertarians rank death tax as one of the most despicable of all taxes?

Well because they don't like taxes in general. And paying the accountant to get around the estate tax costs money too .