3% of US population behind bars, on parole or on probation last year

[KrazyHorse]

God, I love drinking.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Berzerker


So didn't poverty ruin the neighborhood? Alcohol is a symptom, not the cause.

It's also a cause as well that makes the neighborhood even worse. Like a crack house.

Well thank God they're ruining someone else's neighborhood and act civilised when they get home.

Exactly.

At the very least those things should be kept in a business zone and out of residential areas.

[KrazyHorse]

That makes no sense.

Until 3 days ago I didn't own a car. How the **** would I have gotten booze?

[Ted Striker]

Take the bus you lazy alcoholic

[Ted Striker]

Besides, how would you get ANYWHERE?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Take the bus you lazy alcoholic

So you're going to force me to take the bus just to get booze?

Thanks, jackass.

[Ted Striker]

You're welcome.


I'm sure on your list of places to go you have to put booze over school and work.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Besides, how would you get ANYWHERE?

I walk to school and walk to the supermarket.

The liquor store completes the unholy triad.

[KrazyHorse]

That was the greatest xpost ever.

[KrazyHorse]

Anyway, it's bad enough that you can't even buy beer and wine at the supermarket (or the corner store) in this godforsaken state.

[Ted Striker]

What state is that?

[KrazyHorse]

DC north

[Sikander]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

How many Canadian cultures for instance are as different statistically as say African-Americans (and by that I mean the descendents of slaves in the U.S., not African or Carribean immigrants) and European descended Americans? The difference between lower class African-Americans and middle class African-Americans is enormous.

"Different statistically"?

What does that mean?

In an already enumerated (typically by government or academic studies) fashion as opposed to an anecdotal "sense" of the culture.

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

We have people in Canada from across the world. We have more people who have been living with each other for a shorter period than the US does. We accept over twice the number of immigrants per year per capita than you do. Most of these immigrants are not from Western Europe. Most are from the developing world, speak very little English upon arrival and are visible minorities with very different attitudes about what a normal society is.

If you include illegal immigration to the U.S. I think you'll find that we are closer to one another than this, and we too are awash in developing world immigrants from Latin America in particular. The sheer numbers of people from Latin America make assimilation more difficult, as it is easier for those who weren't born here to remain barely assimilated in large and thriving ethnic enclaves. From what I've heard there is a similar situation occurring in BC, though with mostly Chinese immigrants who tend to have a good deal less difficulty in making their own way economically.

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Why is it that these immigrants have not become the same type of underclass that much of the black population of the US has? We have a much stronger policy of multiculturalism than the US does and have much more diversity in terms of culture. Socioeconomics is a separate, though related, subject.

That's the $64,000 question. For starters the population which is having and has historically had the most difficult time in the U.S. are the descendents of slaves. African and Carribean immigrants who might also be categorized as "blacks" have far higher levels of economic and academic achievement than the descendents of American slavery (for lack of a better term).

Comparing the descendents of American slavery to immigrants is really inaccurate, as they have roots in this country which go back farther than the average "white" person. They are a perpetual underclass and have seen almost every group in the U.S. save the earliest white settlers and the Indians come, struggle and prosper one after another, always leaving them in the dust. Things finally seemed to be turning the corner for the DoAS in the 1950s with the beginning of the rollback of segregation and Jim Crow. Then between the mid 1960s and the 1980s something seemed to fvck everything up. All sorts of statistical indicators which had been trending up for this group for decades suddenly began a downward spiral. Even indicators that didn't show an absoulte decline registered an relative decline. I've yet to receive a convincing argument as to why this took place.

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
If you want to argue that the US is socioeconomically more diverse than Canada is then I tend to agree with you. If you want to argue that this has something to do with the higher rates of certain crimes then I'll agree with you too.

But a difference in culture does not necessarily imply a difference in socioeconomic status. Two Pakistanis (if they have not melted completely into North American society) living in Toronto are members of the same culture. If one is a doctor and one is a janitor, however, then they are members of different socioeconomic spheres.

I think this is probably what you meant, but I think it's important to draw a distinction between multiculturalism and socioeconomic inequality. I'm for one and against the other...

Point taken about socioeconomic status vs culture. Perhaps your terminology would have been better. But there is a connection between the two nonetheless. Hunter-gatherer cultures are going to tend to have lower socio-economic status than trader cultures for instance. Populations which are resistant to the dominant culture making inroads and which also have a culture less attuned to material and educational accumulation are going to lag. Conversely, cultures which are more attuned to material and educational accumulation are going to soar, much as the Vietnamese immigrants to the U.S. have done since their arrival in the 1970s.

I'd say that two important factors have exacerbated (I always smile when I get to use that word) the socioeconomic gap in the U.S. vs Canada. The first is the resistance to assimilation in particular of Latin American immigrants to the U.S. due to their concentration in time and space in certain regions of the U.S. The second is the intractability of the problem of bringing the DoAS into the economic mainstream of the U.S. Everything else is probably easily explained by the differences in values and social and economic policies etc.

[KrazyHorse]

I was a bit zealous in attacking you, Sik.

I think you're a good guy in general. Just your placing emphasis on what you were calling cultural differences was making me have doubts about your real thoughts on the matter.

I think I understand what you were saying and, in general think that it is a workable hypothesis.

It looks like just a crossing of definitions.