Rational agent. Self Interest.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Not necessarily, true, but more often than not. Enough that models can predict group behaviour often.

IIUC, people in a group tend to follow the "herd" mentality. That is, any individual is forced to follow the group norms and any formal and informal hierarchy in the group. If they don't, they will face censure or even expulsion from the group. The closer knit the group, the greater the thread.

A group tends to act irrationally more often than any rational individual. Such tendencies are exploited variously, e.g. cults and political youth groups, to mould each member.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


IIUC, people in a group tend to follow the "herd" mentality. That is, any individual is forced to follow the group norms and any formal and informal hierarchy in the group. If they don't, they will face censure or even expulsion from the group. The closer knit the group, the greater the thread.

A group tends to act irrationally more often than any rational individual. Such tendencies are exploited variously, e.g. cults and political youth groups, to mould each member.

This is dependent on culture I think.

In 1979, President Carter faced an economy on the verge of hyperinflation. His solution was to get on tv and talk the American people into saving money. He told us that it was up to us to solve this problem. The way the people took it was to mean that the govt was not going to do anything about the problem. No one believe that the other agents would do the socially responsible thing and that if they did they would pay a heavy price for nothing. People spent their dollars faster than they did before the Carter speech.

[Solly]

"A group tends to act irrationally more often than any rational individual"

I think now someone has to link to the Prisoner's Dilemma.

[BeBMan]

I'm not sure if that belongs to group dynamics as UR meant it. Who would be the group - two separately questioned criminals having lots of time for reflecting about their situation? I think a lynch mob would be a better example

[Solly]

You can increase the prisoner's dilemma to include as many people as you want...

[BeBMan]

What role does that play if they are all questioned separately, so they are not really acting as a group? They only do both the same because they think it is the best for themselves (which I guess nobody would doubt), but this is not the result of group action, as eg. in my case of lynching someone.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
You can increase the prisoner's dilemma to include as many people as you want...

No you can't, and the prisoner's dilemma doesn't really apply to something like a lynch mob.

[Solly]

"No you can't, and the prisoner's dilemma doesn't really apply to something like a lynch mob"

Why not? Individual rationality (ie, not wanting go against crowd and hence get lynched), leads to a group irrationality.

[BeBMan]

Not always (some would even claim rarely) - that's the point.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
"No you can't, and the prisoner's dilemma doesn't really apply to something like a lynch mob"

Why not? Individual rationality (ie, not wanting go against crowd and hence get lynched), leads to a group irrationality.

The prisoner's dilemma doesn't predict what all people will do. It only predicts what different types of people will do. It only applies to a specific situation. All game theory does this. You absolutely have to stay within the parameters.

And you are just agreeing with UR anyway that groups are more irrational.

[Solly]

He's arguing it froma heard mentality basis though, I'm arguing from individual rationality leading to group irrationality.

[BeBMan]

But you need another example then

[Solly]

Prisoner's Dilemma

[BeBMan]

I thought we already ruled it out - no group action etc.?

And even when you go with the lynch mob, the argument that the individuals participating acting rationally is highly debatable. First their motivator is fear. Of course, you'd claim it is rational to fear one's own death. But it would be also rational to say "I don't support the lynchers, since lynching weakens the rule of law, and therefore threatens my life as well, because I could easily be a victim of another lynch mob". And you would esp. have to explain how the individual who comes up with the idea of lynching someone is acting rational, because of the things mentioned above. After all, the first lyncher wouldn't be in danger that others try to pressure him into the lynch mob (since he's the one starting it), hm?

[Solly]

Wtf !