Unions. Whats Your Opinion?

[Space05us]

Do you think they are good or bad? My mom says from her perspective as a member of upper management they are crooks and thieves and nothing more, but from my perspective as a worker/labourer* I'd say they are good. What do you think? Why?

*Im not currently in a union because Im only summer (student) hire but the full time people where I work (BEUCI) are memebers of IBEW and they tell me about thier contracts. To me it seems like a good deal for them.

[Ramo]

Unions are IMO the most important institution in civil society, and it speak volumes of our society that organized labor is so weak.

Unfortunately, Taft-Hartley, the NLRB, and state laws prohibiting public sector collective bargaining - which insures that my job is a non-union job, have castrated labor rights, saddling us with conservative labor leaderships too chicken**** to actually fight. Instead of fighting for better wages, better health care, or god forbid, worker control of the means of production, they fight for anti-immigration laws and protectionism. Basically, unions are great, but are laws have so pussified them, they need a shake-up. But things are changing, for instance the recent Cali grocery workers' strike.

As my former sig said, when we'll all be union and we'll all be free, there's a better world a-comin' can't you see?

[Drogue]

I hate them. Loathe them. Partly because of British history, with public sector unions holding the country back by demanding inflation busting pay rises, and more importantly, trying to force us to keep open industries that are far cheaper and better for the nation to import from abroad. Public sector unions soak up taxpayer funds, that are far better used to improve services. I agree, public service workers need to be paid more, on the whole, but unions also push the lack of job cuts. If you have thousands of people, paid for by the government, who's jobs aren't needed, why pay for them? It's soaking up taxpayer funds.

Unions are cartels set to keep wages high and jobs secure. They work against the free market. While I can see they are needed at times to keep wages fair and livable, we don't allow employers to form cartels. In general, I think unions are an economic drain, lead to lower productivity, and thus in the long run, lower average income. You as an individual benefit by being in a union, but the nation as a whole loses out.

[Tingkai]

Why would anyone want a union? It only means that you make more money. You get protection from crazy managers. You get paid when you work overtime. You get safer working conditions. You won't be fired for no reason just because the new manager doesn't like the way you look. You get help if you're laid off. Yup, unions really suck.

[BeBMan]

Historically worker's unions played a positive role in changing the exploitative 19th century style capitalism into modern economies where many more people have a chance to participate in the welfare they helped to create. In that way unions helped to make our societies more democratic, more just and stable, since they were a platform for workers to articulate (and if needed fight for) their interests.

However, IMO many unions today are only degenerated versions of their own, not better than most lobby groups, and rather conservative in the sense that they are (often) generally against any changes (speaking from the German perspective here). The problem is that most unions still say they do all for the common good when in fact they only care about a limited number of people without thinking on what's good for the society as a whole.

IMO unions are still a important part of our societies, but certainly not the only one, and the power between all those forces should be shared equally, so that certain unions cannot block political or economical changes alone, when most of the people think that those changes are needed.

[Urban Ranger]

Unions are needed for workers with little bargaining power on their own, usually low-tech workers who rely on physical labour with no special skills. IOW, workers who can easily be replaced, like cogs in a machine.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by BeBro
rather conservative in the sense that they are (often) generally against any changes (speaking from the German perspective here).

This is my main problem. Unions that refuse all modernisation, because it might mean they can do as good a job wth a few less staff. Such a bad idea.

Unions are something we pay for to make us less efficient.

[Az]

Unions are generally a positive thing. However, like here, for example, they've been acting like they own the factories and not the people, and in privatized industries, they've been playing along with the capitalist fat cats in opressing the contractor workers.

Generally, they should be everywhere, protecting workers' rights. But usually it slips wrong both ways.

[Dauphin]

I'd rather see strong labour laws than strong unions.

Take the crap that the rail unions are pulling with the London underground. The pay rise they were offered was 6.75% over two years and employers accepted drivers only had to work 35hrs a week. They still went on strike to protect 200 jobs that were threatened in the deal and to try and secure a 4 day working week. Now workers ended up losing more money through not working on strike days than was being demanded by the union in better pay and conditions.

London loses out on an estimated £100million due to congestion, and for what? Nothing.

[Az]

I'd rather see strong labour laws than strong unions

problem is, "Bussiness oriented" governments will usually try to destroy them, ignore them, or sidestep them.

[Dauphin]

There's no difference between laws and unions in that respect.

Maggie killed the unions.

[Az]

How did she do that?

[Harovan]

Can we borrow Maggie for a while for the same purpose?

[Flip McWho]

Yeah my dad used to be in the union back years ago and used to do all that striking and so on. Proper union man he was. Now he is in management at another job and well realises that unions can be a pain in the ass

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Azazel
How did she do that?

Take the miners unions. She sidestepped them by stockpiling enough coal that a coal strike would not effect the economy and then ignored the coal miners unions demands. When they realised that they were impotent they gave up their year long strike.