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  • Oh my god...

    I never would've expected this kind of lunacy from the ICRC, but here it is...

    Red Cross ultimatum to US on Saddam

    Release him, charge him or break international law, Bush told

    Jonathan Steele in Baghdad
    Monday June 14, 2004
    The Guardian

    Saddam Hussein must either be released from custody by June 30 or charged if the US and the new Iraqi government are to conform to international law, the International Committee of the Red Cross said last night.

    Nada Doumani, a spokeswoman for the ICRC, told the Guardian: "The United States defines Saddam Hussein as a prisoner of war. At the end of an occupation PoWs have to be released provided they have no penal charges against them."

    Her comments came as the international body, the only independent group with access to detainees in US custody, becomes increasingly concerned over the legal limbo in which thousands of people are being held in the run-up to the transfer of power at the end of the month.

    The occupation officially ends on June 30 and US forces will be in Iraq at the invitation of its sovereign government.

    "There are all these people kept in a legal vacuum. No one should be left not knowing their legal status. Their judicial rights must be assured," Ms Doumani said.

    Saddam and other senior officials of the old regime are the only Iraqi detainees to have been given PoW status. Hundreds of other Iraqis have been seized since the war often, according to critics, on flimsy suspicion and held for long periods without charge, usually without their families knowing for weeks where they are.

    The ICRC visited the notorious Abu Ghraib prison in early June and found 3,291 detainees, including three women and 22 boys under 18. This was less than half the 6,527 it found in March.

    President George Bush has promised to close the prison where US guards indulged in pornographic abuse of prisoners and several groups of releases have taken place since. But many prisoners have been transferred to other prisons.

    The ICRC is angry that it has not been given exact figures for releases or the whereabouts of those who are moved from Abu Ghraib and it is hoping the end of the occupation will put pressure on the authorities to clean up their act. "If we consider the occupation ends on June 30, that would mean it's the end of the international armed conflict. This is the legal situation.

    "When the conflict ends the prisoners of war should be released according to the Geneva conventions," Ms Doumani said.

    She accepted that US and other foreign forces would remain in Iraq.

    Whether that meant an occupation continued would be "determined by the situation on the ground". The presence of foreign forces ought to be governed by a legal agreement with the host government.

    The ICRC has made at least two visits to the former Iraqi president who is believed to be in a special prison at Baghdad airport.

    Around 40 other members of the so-called "pack of cards", Washington's list of high-level members of the former regime, are also there, most in solitary confinement.

    Interrogation has been sporadic and none has been charged or allowed visits by their lawyers. A few have had family visits.

    They include scientists who were never members of the Ba'ath party, like Dr Amer al Saadi, who was the Iraqi government's liaison with the United Nations' weapons inspectors.

    Family members claim they are being deliberately held without trial so as to be punished even in the absence of evidence of wrongdoing.

    US lawyers have been helping Iraqis prepare charges against Saddam but officials say they do not expect a trial until next year at the earliest. The US and the Iraqi authorities hope other defendants will first testify against him.

    But none has been willing to do so. Whether it is out of loyalty or fear of retribution by Saddam's sympathisers is not clear.

    Once charged the former president will be entitled to judicial guarantees including access to a lawyer and the right to prepare a defence.

    The US has made clear it will continue to detain some Iraqis after the transfer of sovereignty as part of its security operations.




    It's a damn shame, that's all I can say.
    KH FOR OWNER!
    ASHER FOR CEO!!
    GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

  • #2
    Why don't they just charge him? Simple enough. It's not like we don't know what to charge him with.
    Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
    Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
    We've got both kinds

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    • #3
      Why don't they just charge him?


      From what I understand, it's been very hard to produce an open-and-shut case on Saddam. He was rather thorough in destroying incriminating documents and issuing orders in such a way that atrocities couldn't be traced back to him conclusively. The man is smart.
      KH FOR OWNER!
      ASHER FOR CEO!!
      GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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      • #4
        If they release him, they just have to make sure it happens in the right neighbourhood. Then it shouldn't be a problem.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
          Why don't they just charge him?


          From what I understand, it's been very hard to produce an open-and-shut case on Saddam. He was rather thorough in destroying incriminating documents and issuing orders in such a way that atrocities couldn't be traced back to him conclusively. The man is smart.
          That's the thing about the legal system. It's not enough to 'know' someone's guilty you have to be able to prove it. Plus, it only says they have to charge him, they don't have to try the case now.
          Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
          Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
          We've got both kinds

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          • #6
            What's wrong with giving people the time they need to prove it?
            KH FOR OWNER!
            ASHER FOR CEO!!
            GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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            • #7
              How about Guantanamo Bay?

              Or the about 1000 detainees inide the US, because of 11/9 and the PATRIOT act?
              "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
              George Orwell

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              • #8
                He's innocent!
                urgh.NSFW

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                • #9
                  because of 11/9


                  What the **** is 11/9? How are we supposed to take your posts seriously when you just make up events like this?
                  KH FOR OWNER!
                  ASHER FOR CEO!!
                  GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                  • #10
                    He was rather thorough in destroying incriminating documents and issuing orders in such a way that atrocities couldn't be traced back to him conclusively.
                    Personally, I've always been pretty cynical towards the way this is handled in the media: screw the fact that theres no evidence, we know that he personally gassed the kurds and ate their babies, because... he's an evil man?

                    In tough, long and uncertain wars; soldiers, even whole divisions start making stupid, barbaric decisions contradicting their missions (provided them by army, and ultimately, by the commander-in-chiefâ„¢) to prove themselves that they're winning the war. It happened in Vietnam, it happened in Croatia, it happened in Tiananmen Sq., it happened in Waco, it has happened in numerous civil wars in the 20th century -- it could've also happened in Iran.

                    That said, two purely on-topic points:
                    (1) Why don't they just make up some minor offence, charge him, and then keep him half a year in custody while piling up evidence from his more serius crimes?
                    (2) Guardian is hardly a reliable source.

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                    • #11
                      (1) Why don't they just make up some minor offence, charge him, and then keep him half a year in custody while piling up evidence from his more serius crimes?


                      Are there such a thing as "minor offenses" when it comes to war crimes? I think ethnic cleansing is as "minor" as it gets...

                      (2) Guardian is hardly a reliable source.


                      How would the Guardian's well-known liberal bias affect the reporting of this particular information, exactly?
                      KH FOR OWNER!
                      ASHER FOR CEO!!
                      GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
                        because of 11/9


                        What the **** is 11/9? How are we supposed to take your posts seriously when you just make up events like this?
                        Not every culture writes the date as month/day/year; some go day/month/year. Yes, it is annoying and strange, but they're not going to be corrected anytime soon.
                        The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

                        The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.

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                        • #13
                          9/11 happened in America, so I think it's only proper that the naming should conform to our standards.
                          KH FOR OWNER!
                          ASHER FOR CEO!!
                          GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                          • #14
                            Most sane countries write dd/mm/yy
                            You guys don't write hh:ss:mm either, do you?

                            It's from small (day) to large (year) or from large (hour) to small (second)

                            mixing it all up like, let's start with the month then the day and than the year really makes no sence

                            And Saddam should be the expection on the rule that everyone deserves a fair trial.
                            Formerly known as "CyberShy"
                            Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
                              What's wrong with giving people the time they need to prove it?
                              So you can hold people indefinitely? That's a life sentence without trial.
                              (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                              (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                              (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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