The new Zen Touch: 24 hours battery life...

[Imran Siddiqui]

I was waiting for Asher to pounce on that .

[Asher]

I'm waiting for the 10GB microdrive players. Creative just licensed Seagate's 5GB 1" drives, 10GB 1" drives are coming soon.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Agathon
People who live in glass houses....

are very similar to a certain philosophy instructor we all know and love?

[Agathon]

Funny that you link an article that blasts Creative for making their player more like Apple's, in a negative way.

That's the most half witted response I've seen this week.

I'm guessing it's either because you can't read or because you didn't bother reading the rest of the article. If you read the whole article, you would see that the ipod is reviewed in the same article (I only copied the part about the Zen touch - but the link is there).

I quote

Tech products change as often as the discs in my CD player. New versions, tweaks, and updates come along all the time. Sometimes you're handed a product like Creative's Zen Touch, and it's tough to tell how people will react. Other times, well, you're looking at Apple's new IPods. This month I've taken brief looks at new players from both these companies. One's taking steps in the right direction; the other I'm not so sure about.

I'll give you a hint: the Zen touch is not the one taking steps in the right direction. Hence, his comparison is negative for the Zen, positive for the ipod.

In other words, if you want to take this guy as credible (which I don't - I just said that not everyone thinks the ZT is that good), then the ZT is inferior to the ipod. That is, if you want to take him as saying the old Zen is better. You can't have it both ways.

You've been pwned. And so easily, I might add.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
I quote

I'll give you a hint: the Zen touch is not the one taking steps in the right direction. Hence, his comparison is negative for the Zen, positive for the ipod.

What a shallow thinker you are: read the article again. This time try thinking about it.

He raved about the Zen's playlist system, then said Creative was trying to make their product like Apple's, and then he implied they're heading in the wrong direction. Think.

You've been pwned. And so easily, I might add.

Everything's easy in Agathon's little world, it's a shame no one else lives in it.

[Asher]

Step 1: Rave about old-style Zen interface

You might remember that a few months ago I went a little nuts (in a good way) over the playlist interface for Creative's Nomad Zen. I mean, I loved this thing. It absolutely changed the way I listen to music.

Step 2: Criticize Creative's new Zen interface for trying to be like Apple's

Creative wanted to simplify things, to aim for the ease-of-use found in its IPod rivals.

Step 3: Say Creative is heading in the wrong direction

One's taking steps in the right direction; the other I'm not so sure about.

Connect the dots: If he loved the original system, says the new one tries to be like Apple's, which does that imply is better?

At any rate, I'd expect a firmware update to restore the functionality of the old playlist update. Creative's big on firmware updates. And the current response on the new interface is quite negative.

[Agathon]

Nice try. As I said, you can't have it both ways.

He's saying that they tried and failed. He's also saying that he likes the changes made to the ipod. If you can't see that, there is something wrong with you. If he'd wanted to make a favourable comparison of the ZT to the ipod, he would have done so. But he did the opposite.

Of course, you could keep trying to weasel out of a patently idiotic interpretation of the article, but I'm not interested in your pathetic justifications. It's obvious.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
Nice try. As I said, you can't have it both ways.

He's saying that they tried and failed.

He's saying he loved the original playlist, doesn't like the new one.

A simple firmware update can (and likely will) change that.

What's important to note is your own article admits the original Zen's interface is the ultimate.

Of course, you could keep trying to weasel out of a patently idiotic interpretation of the article, but I'm not interested in your pathetic justifications. It's obvious.

It's not a patently idiotic interpretation, it's a simple one: he thought the old Zen firmware was the ultimate, doesn't like the new one. A simple firmware update to allow oldschool functionality completely undermines that point.

Further, it enhances my position over the past two years that the (older) Zen's interface is actually superior to the iPod's. He says so himself right in your article.

When Creatives allows the oldstyle firmware on the new players, we're back to having a cheaper, better, longer-lasting player vs the iPod.

He also never says anything about the new iPod being better. He says he does like the changes -- big whup. It's still woefully under-featured, sub-par quality, overpriced player, improvement or no.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Asher
Everything's easy in Agathon's little world, it's a shame no one else lives in it.

The Agaverse?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Is Agathon really serious? Did he blow a fuse somewhere? The guy obviously said that Creative is trying to be more like Apple and thus makes the new Zen worse than the old one, ie, Zen had better features before than the iPod. To read it any other way is to have blinders on.

[Agathon]

If any of you think that is what the article says, you should report immediately to an asylum.

Looks a lot like a poor IPod knock-off, doesn't it?

That's what he says. The ZT is a poor attempt at mimicing the ipod's simplicity. It's an inferior copy. Trying to spin this into an "ipod sucks" review or is completely stupid, since the reviewer nowhere says that.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Adagio]

IF that guy was really trying to make the ipod look better than the Zen Touch, then he managed to do the opposite...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon


If any of you think that is what the article says, you should report immediately to an asylum.

Read everyone else's response...maybe it's you (again) that's totally off-base.

That's what he says.

Read it again, ace.

He praises the oldschool Zen, blasts the new one for trying to be like the iPod's interface (it doesn't matter if the new one is "inferior" to the iPod's interface, because it still remains true that the old one was significantly better).

It's an inferior copy in that it's not exactly the same as the iPod. He still gives the clear impression that he prefers the Zen, especially the older Zens. Of course the ZT wouldn't be a perfect clone of the iPod, hence being an "inferior copy". But why don't you read the article? It says, explicitly, that the Zen is trying to be like the iPod, and then he also says the Zen is heading in the wrong direction. Connect the dots.

It's plain as day to everyone else, you're just under the typical Apple Distortion Field.

[Drake Tungsten]

Why are you guys still fighting about this? There's no battle here. Apple's already won in market share, the only category that counts...

[Q Classic]

the article you linked to, ag, says something along these lines:

By now, you know where you stand on Apple's famous portable player: You either love it, or you're unimpressed. So here's a simple take on the new versions: Yes, the new models are much better. Apple's offering 20GB and 40GB IPods for $299 and $399, respectively--that's $100 less for the same capacity as earlier models. The company's built in some very real improvements as well, including easier navigation and better battery life. And yet these IPods aren't likely to win over power users holding out for the perfect MP3 player.

he's saying not much has changed to make it anything more than what it was... and if you weren't impressed before, all the new additions are fairly unsubstantive, therefore, he's saying, "move along, there's nothing to see here"....