Rugby - Truck and Trailer!

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Originally posted by Caligastia
There's already plenty of money on the ABs so I'll put 20 on the Boks.

Thanks for diluting my winnings!

Updated betting:

All Blacks with 4.5 points start

All Blacks

Andydog 20
ravagon 10

Springboks

finbar 12
Caligastia 20

Pool: 62 Civ Gold

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All Blacks 23 -d- Springboks 21

Dear, dear, dear. A match the Boks didn't deserve to lose. Yet again, the ABs dominated possession and territory, but couldn't score tries. I actually thought I was watching England playing in black shirts. Massive defence from the Boks and three tries well taken when the opportunities arose. They paid the price with penalties for aggressive defence - coming off the line way too early - and they could easily have been penalised many more times. Yet again, Carlos had next to no impact. G. Henry must now realise that a Test team with strong, aggressive defence can nullify him. And, nullified, he can't do his party tricks. The question is, does Carlos have another string to his bow? And, Tana, you were too clever by half with your post match line about being proud rather than relieved. Your team took seventy eight minutes to score a try with something like 70% of possession. Your team has a problem. Regardless, welcome back to the Boks as a force in rugby.

[Caligastia]

Yes, that was the best defence I've seen in a while from any team. As you said though, a lot of offside play as a result.

The ABs have weathered the storm of a great Bok side despite being hit with injury and illness and should be back to full strength when they face the Wallabies in Sydney. I was surprised to see Rokocoko on the field actually...I thought he was one of the latest ABs to fall prey to the sickness that was going around.

Well...I think the Wallabies will have a huge task next week in Perth. Their forwards were not up to scratch against the ABs and I don't expect they will be able to front up against the Springbok pack either. I don't think the Boks will get quite as many scoring opportunities as they did against NZ (Wallabies are better than NZ in defence), but they definitely have an advantage in the forwards.

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With both Rokocoko and Carter playing, the ABs weren't as ravaged as I thought they were going to be. It was interesting that the ABs appeared to win the set pieces, but I thought the Boks' back row, for example, outplayed the ABs' in the loose. Gee, that young Bok #6, Berger, is an immense talent. And what about those two tackles on the AB speedsters by the giant loosehead du Randt?

Anyway, yes, the Boks' pack should enjoy taking on our pack. We both have very strong defences, so it might be a case of gridlock. The Boks' backline and scoring potential isn't yet up to ours (or the ABs'), so I'm going to have to count on that making the difference.

[LDiCesare]

The Boks' backline and scoring potential isn't yet up to ours (or the ABs'), so I'm going to have to count on that making the difference.

So you're saying you'll be murdered in the pack area and hope the girlies will save you?
Tant qu'il y a de la vie, il y a de l'espoir
You'd better have a nice pair of halves to make that happen...

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Originally posted by LDiCesare

So you're saying you'll be murdered in the pack area and hope the girlies will save you?

I could've sworn Havak was away for two weeks! But, yes, that's what I was saying. It worked against England.

Tant qu'il y a de la vie, il y a de l'espoir

If that means, "Where there's life, there's hope" - yes!

You'd better have a nice pair of halves to make that happen...

We do. Unfortunately, they could be backpedalling at a million kilometres an hour.

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Toulouse waits for Tamerlin go on hols before they sign a Welshman!

Stupid link! Stupid page has a stupid tag on it!

[ravagon]

Yee-ikes. That was cutting it just a little too close for comfort. Was so keyed-up that I didn't get to sleep for a couple of hours after the end of the delayed coverage. *yawn*

The result must've been a little disappointing for the Boks in the end - if the ref had given that penalty the Boks conceded (right in front of the sticks) with <3mins to go it would've ended up as a draw. Instead he let play go on with no advantage to the AB's whatsoever until a couple of phases later when they managed to get across the line. A draw would've been a pretty appropriate outcome for that game.

I do have to wonder just how fit some of our players were though. Rokocoko for one was described as 'bed-ridden' on Wednesday and 'moving about' the day after. They may've gotten over the visible symptoms but it must've still been terribly draining just a day and a half before the kickoff.

On the bright side for the 3N - the Boks are back. With a vengeance. I don't think they're pretty much automatically consigned to 3rd place as has been the case over the last few seasons. They looked pretty good out on the field. The return match in SA will be a doozey.
As will be the case this Saturday over here.
Speaking of which, Graham and Eddie are at odds again - Henry praising the Boks game post-match while Eddie condemns their ball-killing tactics. Tut-tut.
He may as well paint a big red target on his players foreheads.
He'll just look like a whinger if the Wallabies don't win in Perth. Some people need to be muzzled.

I'm glad a certain Englishman isn't here to point out that this may apply equally well to a certain Kiwi, whose name may happen to start with a Z.

[Andydog]

Originally posted by finbar
Yet again, the ABs dominated possession and territory, but couldn't score tries.

I agree that the rushing defense in midfield was not handled well at all by the All Black backline. Carlos once again struggling when his options were cut down, and the midfield struggled with the brutal tackles of Barry and Joubert. The ball supply to the outsides dried right up, and this kept the Bokke in the game - the few times that the ball did go wide, Howlett mainly, and Rokocko, did look dangerous.

The battle up front though was awesome. The ABs held the ball phase after phase and the green jerseys raced each other to knock em down again. The penalty count did add up though, and that was enough to keep the All Blacks in the game. If these penalties had not been given would the pressure been rewarded with tries? We will never know, but it was surprising that no yellow cards were given - Burger being the main culprit, but hey, play to the Ref, he got away with murder, but good on him.

We didn't play well all in all, and as Umaga said: "It wasn't pretty, but it was a win". And at the end of the day though I thought it was a good win as even though we played pretty badly we still hung tough to win a tight one - like the All Blacks of 96 and 97 used to do. When our plan A 'expansive game' didn't work, we won it with a plan B.

So there we are. This All Black team knows how to win ugly. Last season we knew how to win with all the bells & whistles . So when we get the bells & whistles mixing with the ugly, look out world!

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So, what of Carlos, do you think? He seems to be an indicator of the difference between S12 and Test rugby. In S12, he has the time and space to do his party tricks. In Tests, the pressure of strong, attacking defence shuts him down. I'm sure he'll produce his party tricks against the lesser nations, but are his options too limited to succeed against the top nations?

I'm not altogether sure that the ABs had Plans A and B on the weekend. I thought they had a Plan A - try to find a way past crunching defence. Ultimately, as against the Wallabies, sheer weight of possession meant they had to score sooner or later. The difference was that they almost ran out of time on the weekend. The shocking weather conditions the week before worked against back play. The conditions on Saturday night were close to perfect. I don't think there was a Plan B, and that, coupled with some pretty ordinary defence on the few occasions the Boks had the ball, was what bothered me.

Goodness, gracious me! The Bok media outs their own man for eye-gouging!

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Cripes! We'd dropped like a stone!

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Ben Cohen joins the ranks of the deluded.

And I notice that a Welsh rugby club has appointed Chris Anderson, former Australian Kangaroos (L*****) coach, as their new coach. He has neither played nor coached rugby in his life. We shall see.

[Andydog]

Originally posted by finbar
So, what of Carlos, do you think? He seems to be an indicator of the difference between S12 and Test rugby. In S12, he has the time and space to do his party tricks. In Tests, the pressure of strong, attacking defence shuts him down. I'm sure he'll produce his party tricks against the lesser nations, but are his options too limited to succeed against the top nations?

I'm not sure I'm ready decide on Carlos. My gut is telling me that the rush defence used by the Bokkes won't be as effective when we play them next. I say that because the Aussies have had a week to work it out, and the ABs will see what works there, and then have their own thoughts from this week, and come the rematch, I suspect we won't have the same sorts of problems.

Marshall on the bench might be one of the first changes - a halfback with a crisp pass is half the battle against a flat defence.

Also, The Bokke were constantly offside at ruck and maul time, it was as if they didn't care. I suspect they were willing to get hit with penalties so long as they dried up our ball out wide. I think that in the next few tests, the referees will police this more rigorously.

I'm not altogether sure that the ABs had Plans A and B on the weekend. I thought they had a Plan A - try to find a way past crunching defence.

I think their plan A was to play a more expansive game, but this was quickly scuppered due to the rushing defense. Also our backs were standing too flat - something they got a bollocking for at half time. So our plan B was to keep on hitting them hard mainly in the centers until the cracks appeared. And they did, eventually. Lets not forget that the Bokke defence was outstanding, probably the best I've seen. But in the end we won by guts and determination. No flash Harry backline moves that tore the Boer defence to shreds in the world cup quarterfinal, no sweeping counter attacks, just good old fashioned rugby.

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Originally posted by Andydog

I'm not sure I'm ready decide on Carlos. My gut is telling me that the rush defence used by the Bokkes won't be as effective when we play them next. I say that because the Aussies have had a week to work it out, and the ABs will see what works there, and then have their own thoughts from this week, and come the rematch, I suspect we won't have the same sorts of problems.

Yes, well, I see a pattern with Carlos that started in the return Tri Nations match between us last year. That was the match we narrowly lost, having been thumped in the first match. In the return match, the Wallabies got into the ABs' faces, and Carlos', in particular. He was much less effective. Ditto the World Cup semi, where he made no contribution at all. Ditto two weeks ago, although the weather and conditions were obviously a factor. Last week, the Boks shut him down in ideal playing conditions, even though your forwards held sway. Any oppo worth its salt now knows how to shut him down. The question is, I believe, does he have anything else in his locker apart from his party tricks? Because I don't know that he's going to get many chances to perform them at the highest level. I noticed the assistant AB coach defending him today. That's usually a worrying sign.

Also, The Bokke were constantly offside at ruck and maul time, it was as if they didn't care. I suspect they were willing to get hit with penalties so long as they dried up our ball out wide. I think that in the next few tests, the referees will police this more rigorously.

They were perpetually offside. But we weren't in the return Tri Nations last season, nor in the World Cup semi. I don't think you need to be constantly offside to cramp Carlos, just ultra aggressive.

No flash Harry backline moves that tore the Boer defence to shreds in the world cup quarterfinal, no sweeping counter attacks, just good old fashioned rugby.

Seventy nine minutes of running into a brick wall before a crack appeared!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Andydog
...just good old fashioned rugby.

I would not say good, if you are talking about the latest New Zealand vs. South Africa game I would rather say that the game was very poor... as the referee himself.

Finbar's last sentence sums it up adequately, the AB forwards played a dull game: a spontaneaous scrum with 6 to 7 Blacks on the ground held by 2 Boks, ball given to or caught by the half-scrum who handled the ball to a more or less running AB forward bumping into a well organized defence and followed by 5 to 6 "supporting" AB unable to stay on their feet, ball catch by the half-scrum... and so on. Why the AB didn't create a single maul while they were dominating the Boks' forwards is beyond me.

Though it is good to see the AB forwards at work again they still have to relearn how to play.