Homosexual help

[Imran Siddiqui]

No, #1 and #2 are not preconditions for #3's effect. Have Jews suffered from #1 and #2? Are Jews today aren't second-class citizens? No.. so does that mean you'd be for saying "Don't be a Jew" since they never suffered from not being able to adopt nor from not marrying? Somehow I don't think so, since you object so strongly to the "Don't be gay" thing.

Don't be dense, Asher. You were trying to sneak strawmen in, like you usually do. This conversation is about whether calling something 'gay' is too offensive to be used, the marriage stuff figures into none of it.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Don't be dense, Asher. You were trying to sneak strawmen in, like you usually do. This conversation is about whether calling something 'gay' is too offensive to be used, the marriage stuff figures into none of it.

So you don't think having the whole of society exclude you from major parts of society, and then using your minority as a generalized insult does not add "insult to injury", and you can completely seperate them?

It's one thing to have people use your sexual orientation was an insult, and it's even worse when they deny you rights that others enjoy. You cannot honestly say it has nothing to do with someone's sexual orientation, even if you say "this popcorn is gay'. Unless, of course, you're really that dense.

To me it's all the same, they're all just constant reminders that we're different and will have to deal with varying levels of hostility from society. Forbid marriage, call everything gay, same difference to me -- usually same people, too.

I'm not saying you said anything about marriage, so I don't know why you think it's a strawman. Perhaps I'm too expectant of people's intelligence here, and would figure they would know enough already to put themselves in somebody else's shoes when dealing with issues like this, but apparently I still need to hold their hands, even if they do cry about it and mislabel it as a strawman.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So you don't think having the whole of society exclude you from major parts of society, and then using your minority as a generalized insult does not add "insult to injury", and you can completely seperate them?

Yes, you can seperate them. You didn't answer my first part. Are Jews excluded from major parts of society? Do you believe that "Don't be a Jew" is ok, while "Don't be gay" isn't?

You cannot honestly say it has nothing to do with someone's sexual orientation, even if you say "this popcorn is gay'.

Is my popcorn homosexual? Does it have sex with other popcorn? So how does it have anything to do with sexual orientation?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Yes, you can seperate them. You didn't answer my first part. Are Jews excluded from major parts of society? Do you believe that "Don't be a Jew" is ok, while "Don't be gay" isn't?

Speaking of strawmen...

Of course it's not okay.

Is my popcorn homosexual? Does it have sex with other popcorn? So how does it have anything to do with sexual orientation?

I honestly can't believe you would accuse me of being dense.

I'll help you out here:

Gay -> sexual orientation that is mainly disapproved of, ESPECIALLY in areas like public schoosl where the use of "gay" as an insult is most predominant

It started many, many years ago as saying "soandso is gay". It became so ubiquitous that it's now a universal insult. This is gay, that is gay... it all comes back to being a slag to homosexuals.

And as a homosexual, I will tell you point blank: that's what I know it comes from.

As a homosexual who grew up through public school systems through constant use of the word "gay" among the peers, I can tell you that you know it contributes to an already rather hostile environment towards gays, and you definitely get the impression that "gay" = bad. Your self-esteem falls, your sense of self-worth disappears, and your anxiety levels go through the roof.

And all because of certain unnamed morons who can't figure out what calling things "gay" has to do with the sexuality.

The whole marriage/social preconditions thing was a hopeless hand-holding exercise for you, because it was clear you lack the ability to be sensitive without it. Though, apparently that doesn't help, either.

I feel sorry for your future clients, I really do.

[Az]

Imran is a stupid Paki.

This thread is gay..


I hope I am not too jew about it.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Azazel
Imran is a stupid Paki.

This thread is gay..


I hope I am not too jew about it.

Go back to Russia you drunkard.

[Az]

Shuddup, Calgary flamer.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Speaking of strawmen...

Of course it's not okay.

How is it a strawman, when I never said that was your position. Saying it is not ok bolsters my position... duh.

You have the logic skills of a gnat.

And all because of certain unnamed morons who can't figure out what calling things "gay" has to do with the sexuality.

So you admit that that when people call something 'gay', they aren't thinking about sexuality! Wonderful! In fact, it is to the point today that has nothing to do with sexuality. You said yourself that some of your friends say X is so gay in front of you. Were they trying to make you mad? No... probably not.

Imran is a stupid Paki.

This thread is gay..


I hope I am not too jew about it.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
How is it a strawman, when I never said that was your position. Saying it is not ok bolsters my position... duh.

You have the logic skills of a gnat.

It does no such thing, I've no idea what you're on.

So you admit that that when people call something 'gay', they aren't thinking about sexuality! Wonderful! In fact, it is to the point today that has nothing to do with sexuality.

You say I have the logic skills of a gnat? Just because they're not thinkign specifically of the sexuality when they call inanimate objects gay (duh...) doesn't mean it has nothing to do with the sexuality.

The name of the sexuality is being used as an insult, equating it to bad. It doesn't matter what the hell the moron using it was thinking, because the effect (especially to gay people), is an insult againsts their sexuality -- period.

Get it?

[Az]

I must say that, generally, I agree with Asher. That stuff implies gay=bad. I mean, *I* grew through all of school, calling people fags. First, I didn't know what it meant, then I did, sort of, and then, it just was a power of a habit, though I knew it was wrong, in my own mind. Homophobic habits ARE rampant in highscools, and one can speak against it only with good friends, when the issue comes up.

[Imran Siddiqui]

It does no such thing, I've no idea what you're on.

Of course it does. That means that you think that you don't have be a "second-class citizen" to be offended by "Don't be a ____ "

The name of the sexuality is being used as an insult, equating it to bad. It doesn't matter what the hell the moron using it was thinking, because the effect (especially to gay people), is an insult againsts their sexuality -- period.

Of course it matters what the person was thinking! The whole idea of an involuntary insult is silly. To be a real insult, the person should be attempting to make the insult. People are too insulted over things not intended as such... they take themselves way too seriously.

[Asher]

I can't believe you're such a shallow thinker, Imran.

You wouldn't be able to cut it in anything requiring real thinking, like the sciences.

[Imran Siddiqui]

That stuff implies gay=bad. I mean, *I* grew through all of school, calling people fags. First, I didn't know what it meant, then I did, sort of, and then, it just was a power of a habit, though I knew it was wrong, in my own mind. Homophobic habits ARE rampant in highscools, and one can speak against it only with good friends, when the issue comes up.

So what do you do when a gay person says "that's gay"? Or doesn't care when people around him do so? I have a very good gay friend who says "that's gay" more than I do (I hardly say it)!

[Az]

You wouldn't be able to cut it in anything requiring real thinking, like the sciences.

What do you have to do with the sciences?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yes Asher... cause when you get schooled in philosophy debates with Agathon, I think... oooh, there goes a real thinker, who was just whooped by a non-real thinker!