Troy

[Bereta_Eder]

It did not happen that way. We laughed our asses off with a "documentary" (I won't say which countrys') which "explained" the facts ? they had thrown theseus and the amazons and what have you in the mix


Apart from that a pleasant hour of pop corn I'm sure.

[alva]

Originally posted by GePap
Look, I paid for an arguement, all you are doing is disagreeing with anything I say!

You been brushing up on your Python recently???

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I guess it isn't explicit in the Illiad, but didn't Achilles have a very, very close male friend with whom there may have been relations?

I remember an ancient Greek philosophy class I had, in which the professor mentioned that Achilles had a romantic relationship with this male "friend."


EDIT -- this course was when I was in undergraduate school

[joncha]

I just came back from seeing it...



They opted...

Spoiler:

against having gods running around the battlefield

...(good plan that), and did a good job of conveying the futility of war, the flaws inherent in the heroic code, and the folly of relying on the gods for salvation.

Still, it is a Hollywood epic, but in this case I think the story fits.

Brad Pitt was actually perfect for Achilles, and Brian Cox and Sean Bean were great as usual. Peter O'Toole also gave a strong performance, but he just looks really, really old.

The only real criticism I had was...

Spoiler:

their decision to include Roman propaganda, by have Aeneas make an appearance at the end.

Overall, it's definitely worth watching.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I read the spoilers anyway even though I didn't see it .

As for your criticism, I don't think that's horrible. I mean the story is a fable, why not connect to it another fable. There may be another movie in the making.. even after the Odessey .

[JohnT]

From today's review of the movie in The Wall Street Journal, with possibly the most puntastic title ever seen in a movie review:

Homer, Run: Epic "Troy" Hectors us about History; A Tin Ear for the Bronze Age

Never have so many forgettable characters been so fixated by fame as they are in "Troy."

"They'll be talking about this war for a thousand years," Brad Pitt's Achilles tells Hector.

"If you go to Troy," Achilles mother tells him, "people will remember your name for thousands of years, but I will never see you again."

"That's why no one will remember your name," Achilles tells a little kid who voices skepticism about fighting giants.

"This war will never be forgotten," says Odysseus, "nor will the heroes who fight it."

"You came here because you want your names to last through the ages," Agamemnon tells his troops.

So how long will "Troy" the movie be remembered? That depends upon who's doing the remembering. For students of ancient history, maybe a day. For devotees of long, flat-footed spectacles, a week. For fans of Brad Pitt, a month. But for fans of high-end Hollywood folly - i.e. a willingness to throw a quarter-billion dollars or more at a production with a humdrum script and ho-hum special effects - a long, long time.

Ouch!

[JohnT]

Roman... propoganda? You mean the filmmakers were channeling the spirits of a 2-millennium dead civilization?

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Agathon
OBWAT has an excellent soundtrack too. It's one of the few I've bought and I listen to it all the time.

Gotta love that old time music.

(all the way from the first page)

I've agreed to two of your posts without reservation in short order. I am disturbed by this.

[Bereta_Eder]

"If you go to Troy," Achilles mother tells him, "people will remember your name for thousands of years, but I will never see you again."



Actually in this particular instance this is an accurate phrase as delivered by Homer. Not in these words but in similar essence. Achileas knew that if he went to that war he would be killed.

[SnowFire]

I can't believe they left the gods out of "Troy." Haven't the producers watched "Hercules" and "Xena?" You get to see what a shmuck of a war god Ares is, being beaten back by mortals!

Anyway, I read "The Iliad for Boys and Girls" which was printed in 1904 or so. Found it at my grandmother's place. A bit dated, of course, but quite good as an abridged version that gets to the point and is readable for younger readers.

[Mr. President]

Did Protesilaus (spelling?) make an appearance?

[joncha]

With the gods it's a kids movie, without them it can actually have something worthwhile to say about the human condition.

And, yes, Roman propaganda.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Without the Gods it loses its main luster.

[joncha]

Not really... IMO it serves to humanise the characters. In many ways, Homer uses the gods as a way of explaining peoples' actions and emotions. Strip that away, and the actions and emotions remain. In the movie, most of the characters still refer to the gods (in the same way that some people still refer to God's Will), but it becomes and interpretation of events, not a supernatural act. I think that in doing it this way, it allows for a far more nuanced story.

[SnowFire]

Uh, how do they explain Agamennon's near-invincibility then? I guess he's just been lucky?

Joncha: I agree about humanizing characters for motives. For instance, if Eris mind-controlled Paris, I'd object and agree to toss that reference to the gods since it makes human action irrelevant. But the Greek gods were basically like humans, and you can consider them players in the story as well, plotting just as much as the humans. I want epic conflicts & wars of the gods. The Iliad was the ancient equivalent of Hollywood, and big god-powered conflicts are part of that.

Anyway, really, I wouldn't object to making the Greek heroes appear almost like the "superheroes" of today, which are really based off the originals. It's not like they're making a documentary about the real Trojan war. Go ahead and do it as Homer would have.