Oerdin's Iraq thread - Continued

[lord of the mark]

actually the Marines have a fair amount of experience with counter insurgency, and a hearts and minds orientation in their doctrine for carrying it out, IIUC. Whether they have been succesful or not in Anbar province, and in particular whether they have done better than the Army, is another matter.

However it was hardly absurd to do deploy them.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
actually the Marines have a fair amount of experience with counter insurgency, and a hearts and minds orientation in their doctrine for carrying it out, IIUC. Whether they have been succesful or not in Anbar province, and in particular whether they have done better than the Army, is another matter.

However it was hardly absurd to do deploy them.

They certainly failed in Falluja.

600-700 Iraqis dead - Iraqis said most of them were civilians, American commanders said ALL of them were enemy combatants, the truth probably right in the middle. After some weeks of heavy fighting, US military decided to call it a day and gave control of the city to one of Saddam's generals. What a glorious victory!

[lord of the mark]

Given what the USMC was tasked with in Fallujah, its not clear the Army would have done any better. And agreeing to a deal hardly sounds like the policy of people who dont understand theyre fighting a political war.

Look Im not arguing whether what happened in Fallujah was a success or failure. Im arguing whether its an indication that the USMC is worse than the army at counter insurgency and hearts and minds warfare. I see no evidence from Fallujah that that is so. In fact there were plenty of reports that they WERE getting info from friendlies inside the city, and in fact are doing so now. But they were going up against the most pro-insurgency city in Iraq. And in fact at least part of the reason was mistakes made by the ARMY division that had been there before.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Given what the USMC was tasked with in Fallujah, its not clear the Army would have done any better. ---

It's not really a matter of who (what unit) that fights the war, but how.

But certainly, given the hostility of Falluja in the first place, any US unit would probably had failed to win the hearts and minds, no matter what policy they would had choosen.

And agreeing to a deal hardly sounds like the policy of people who dont understand theyre fighting a political war.

Perhaps not you, but many Americans on Apolyton said the Marines kicking butt was the way to deal with Falluja, some even recommending carpet bombing. Then the Falluja threads just died when the handover deal was set.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
This is what I have been saying on Apolyton for almost a year and a half, but most Americans won't listen. They think deploying the Marines as peace-keepers and use air strikes in urban areas is the way to win a war of liberation.

USA, USA, USA!!!

Please notice I said a minority of units do this.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Oerdin, you seem to have gained some increased responsibility during your deployment. Any theoretical chance you will go home as a leutenant, or is a West Point graduation mandatory before you can? Question is not really personal, I'm just curious of US Army policy.

My buddy who is a multiple UN peace-keeping veteran (6 UN missions = 3 years of war-zone deployment, plus one mission as a civilian contractor) was asked to go on an 8th assignment. When he was reluctant, they told him he would be promoted from private to leutenant, without even serving as a sergeant in between, just like that.

(He still declined, since his GF was pregnant and his priorities had changed now that he was older.)

Field Commisions do happen, however, I am not seeking one. I'd probably have to reelist which is not something I entend on doing. I plan on getting out of the military and working on a civilian career but I'm leaving the door open for possibly applying to the Air Force Reserve for a flight position.

[chequita guevara]

Chem Ollie, before being posted to Falluja, the Marines had been quite successful in the regions they were previously posted. They weren't muscled-brained morons who shot first and grunted later.

They were, however, tasked with retaking Falluja, which is a lot different than simply peace-keeping.

[Dinner]

Yesterday was a some what morbid day. I'm assigned to support 1-18 infantry of the 1st ID but due to upcoming missions they asked my team to assist them in recoving the body of a Hungarian national who had be beheaded by Islamic militants. The fellow was kidnapped and then beheaded and his body was thrown into the Tigris with his head stuffed into a back pack straped to the body. Some Iraqi farmers found the body flooting in the river and it was taken to Tikrit General Hospital. Our job was to get the body and transfer it to the morgue in FOB Spiker outside of Tikrit. Unfortunately, the body wasn't in a body bag so six of us had to put the headless corpse and the decapitated head into a body bag.

After that we helped some of the guys from our unit's headquarters pick up some equipment at FOB Spiker then it was time for me to write my daily report.

[chequita guevara]

That sux.

[Dinner]

Went to a town council meeting today here in Tikrit. As usual the council members sat around and *****ed about every little grip that passed their mind yet did absolutely nothing to fix any of those problems. The only thing they could agree on was that the US should give them more free money.

I'm thinking the Iraqis are acting more and more like western politicians each day.

[Dinner]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3922055.stm

The BBC has a nice article about the Tigris becoming an open sewer. They are a bit misleading and biased as they imply the war made it the open sewer that it is today but the truth is the vast majority of Iraqi cities have no sewage treatment and never have. The same goes for Syria and I suspect eastern Turkey. That means millions of gallons of raw sewage oozing down the river each day. Joy of joys.

Luckily, I'm north of Baghdad so the water just looks nasty but doesn't smell horrid. Since I'm right on the river the smell would make my life worse then it already is.

[SpencerH]

I hope you used gloves. Some of the bacteria in those rivers and canals is so virulent I dont even want to think about it.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie


They certainly failed in Falluja.

600-700 Iraqis dead - Iraqis said most of them were civilians, American commanders said ALL of them were enemy combatants, the truth probably right in the middle. After some weeks of heavy fighting, US military decided to call it a day and gave control of the city to one of Saddam's generals. What a glorious victory!

But the Marines hadn't even stormed Fallujah. They just encircled the city until someone decided to throw money at the problem. (i.e. have an "Iraqi brigade" go in)

[Kropotkin]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I'm thinking the Iraqis are acting more and more like western politicians each day.

Wasn't that what you where aiming for?

I've been a way for a few weeks. Nice to be back and see that the old Gee... G.I. is still alive and on his feet.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by SpencerH
I hope you used gloves. Some of the bacteria in those rivers and canals is so virulent I dont even want to think about it.

Gloves and a face mask.