6 US Troops charged for maltreating Iraqi jail inmates

[muxec]

And seriously if those humiliated by US soldiers are terrorists US soldiers behaved almost right. The only wrong thing was a camera and US soldiers must be punished for filming, not for humiliating.

And why did US soldiers say that they did so? They'd better say that the photoes are fake and photoshoped.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
A goal which "they" are succeeding at achieving at a remarkably rapid rate right now.

Which is why we have hundreds of thousands of troops there... compared to well under that on September 10th, 2001.

I mean, don't let the door hit you on the way out. You are going out backwards with breathtaking speed. It's stunning.

Going to the Middle East with conventional military forces and putting them in an occupation role was just about the worst thing you could do. The US is far too close to Israel too ever pull that one off. This is worse than Vietnam in some ways - South Vietnam had an army and government after all.

Any arguments to back this up?

Do you think your army or your country is looking powerful right now? You are being humiliated over there in ways that make the humiliation of those prisoners look like child's play.

I'd take a look at our casualty ratios before you say we're being "humiliated"

Plus, you are making the mistake - often attributed to Fox and the right - of connecting 9/11 and Iraq. Bush was going to go into Iraq anyways - obviously, 9/11 was not supposed to get us in there.

Whether or not Iraq is working has nothing to do with the efficacy of 9/11.

And even pimply teenagers on this pissant internet forum predicted precisely what is happening in Iraq!!!!!!!! That in itself says something quite incredible about those running this war I think.

It says more about the number of pimply teenagers on the internet, and the number of predictions they make

I seem to recall predictions of thousands of US casualties in the invasion alone - and of near zero. Given that virtually every conceivable outcome has been predicted by somebody, it says nothing that one of them actually came true.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kropotkin

So, OBL expected the US to pull out from Manhattan?

Eventually, yes

[Spiffor]

AH has a point though:

Bush managed to completely alienate most of the world. Right after Sept. 11, the whole world was behind the US. But his reckless policy made him alienate pretty much the whole Arab world, "Old Europe", most of "New Europe" who was with him out of self-interest, Russia, China, Muslim Asian countries.

In two years.

This is the main reason why so many Americans die in Iraq, and this is the reason why there aren't enough troops. The Bushies thought they could do the fighting nearly alone, and they gave the rest of the world the finger. Wow.

---

Besides, the US is progressively sacrificing its freedoms it's so proud of, for the sake of fighting terrorism. Terrorism is a handy excuse to come up with bigoted policies, and bigoted ideological gap.

Afghanistan was a debacle for AQ's infrastructure. But they have won pretty much all political battles so far: "bigoting" the American population into crusaders, considerably raising their own support in the Arab world, letting the Americans destroy their diplomatic relations out of bigotry... If I was Ben Laden, I wouldn't say things are that bad, if only it wasn't for that wet cave

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Okay, now I'm starting to grasp what all the comments about AH I've seen over the last few years were about.

I now get the joke.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Besides, the US is progressively sacrificing its freedoms it's so proud of, for the sake of fighting terrorism.

Out of interest, what's the difference between the legistlation passed here and the various laws in Europe because I know of several that were passed in the UK that go as far or further than the Patriot Act?

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Besides, the US is progressively sacrificing its freedoms it's so proud of, for the sake of fighting terrorism. cave

And is pisses me off to no end. Homeland Security is almost as bad as Al Qaeda.

You want to neutralize the Terrorist threat to America? Allow all Americans to pack firearms. Yeah we may shoot a few innocent weirdos, but that's what the courts are for.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Out of interest, what's the difference between the legistlation passed here and the various laws in Europe because I know of several that were passed in the UK that go as far or further than the Patriot Act?

We Europeans don't find the same pride in our freedoms, and we don't identify with our freedoms nearly as much as Americans do. Freedom is not the thing that is used to define our countries.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb

And is pisses me off to no end. Homeland Security is almost as bad as Al Qaeda.

You want to neutralize the Terrorist threat to America? Allow all Americans to pack firearms. Yeah we may shoot a few innocent weirdos, but that's what the courts are for.

[the_ceebs]

Todays Observer front page article says that Three UK personell were at Abu Ghraib although they had no knowledge of the abuses and were nothing to do with the guarding of prisoners.

It also includes details of the Taguba report

Officials are known to be shocked by the findings, contained in a report by Major-General Antonio Taguba, the senior US officer secretly sent to investigate the abuse. According to Taguba's leaked report: 'Various detention facilities operated by military police in Iraq, hosted "ghost detainees" - unidentified prisoners brought to them by "other government agencies".

Taguba reports that the 320th MP Battalion at Abu Ghraib 'held a handful of "ghost detainees" that they moved around within the facility to hide them from a visiting International Committee of the Red Cross survey team.' He concludes: 'This manoeuvre was deceptive, contrary to army doctrine and in violation of international law.''

It also reports that Condolezza Rice, Colin Powel and Paul Wolfwitz were personally informed of 'Abuse tantamount to torture' by the President of the International red cross Jakob Kallenberger.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Spiffor
We Europeans don't find the same pride in our freedoms, and we don't identify with our freedoms nearly as much as Americans do.

Wasn't Liberty, Fraternity, Equality! a motto for the French Revolution?

[Fake Boris]

I'd say that a more correct answer would be that Euros don't value as much economic liberty - because most of them agree that it predates social equality.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Wasn't Liberty, Fraternity, Equality! a motto for the French Revolution?

Well, liberty is only one of those three, and our identification with the Nation doesn't completely blend with our identification to the Republic. Ergo, our freedom is a weaker cultural value in France than in the US. And I think it is the same for all of Europe.

[Az]

I knew it! The eurocoms hate freedom!

[Spiffor]

Az:
This is actually a serious argument by quite a few Americans here. Imran has implied there was no freedom of speech in France because we punish incitement to hatred (or public hate speech). He has not yet said Germany was still nazi, because it can outlaw political parties, but I guess it'll come one day in a German thread