6 US Troops charged for maltreating Iraqi jail inmates

[Agathon]

Well Joe Lieberman just screwed up. Apparently the Arab networks are carrying Rumsfeld's testimony live. From what I saw, the general approach was to treat the accusations extremely seriously, which couldn't but go over well with Arab viewers.

Then along comes Joe with his "We may have done some bad things but the Arabs are barbarians and have done far worse" speech. While that may be true, it is pretty stupid given that the US is trying to show its best side to the Arab world right now.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


So, brutalizing a prisoner evidently is illegal even before his status is known (that the point of my question, BTW).

It depends on what you call "brutalizing." Mild to moderate threats or intimidation or deception in the immediate process of taking a prisoner. As a prisoner gets to different stages of the capture and confinement process, then the rules are (in theory) more stringently applied, as the immediacy of battlefield necessity and circumstances gives way to long term confinement and specific units or organizations tasked with guarding the prisoners in long term confinement.

The photos coming out of Abu Ghraib clearly cross the line into illegal conduct, but there are definite grey areas involving a much lesser degree of conduct towards prisoners. Abu Ghraib is so blatant that there really should be no doubt on anyone's part that what was done there was a violation of the UCMJ.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by DanS
Looks like Rumsfeld stays.

For now. Watergate looked like a non-starter in the fall of 1972.

[DanS]

Yes, yes. For now.

[DanS]

Then along comes Joe with his "We may have done some bad things but the Arabs are barbarians and have done far worse" speech. While that may be true, it is pretty stupid given that the US is trying to show its best side to the Arab world right now.

Well, there is a plurality of opinions. Nothing wrong with that.

[Arrian]

It looks/sounds bad, at a sensitive time, that's all. I wish my senator had kept his friggin' mouth shut.

-Arrian

[GePap]

While this is certanly a big deal, I don't think it is as big a deal in Iraq itself as we make it-outside Iraq, yes, inside it?

The guys getting tortured, molested, in some cases shot were not the most popular men in Iraq, so I doubt anyone besides the families is shedding many tears for them-people in Iraq aren;t anymore caring for their fellow man than anyone else.

In other arab states, certainly it is a PR disaster, but then, so was the whole Iraq war, and Bush's support for Sharon (which in the end didn;t do anything for Sharon either), so this is icing on a vast cake, not the cake itself.

[Chemical Ollie]

The Swedish TV news is trying to make a domestic scandal by the fact that similar torture methods (sleep & sense depravation by cuffing, hooding, loud foreign music and long sessions of the prisoner standing in tension) are regularly used in training of Swedish marines and paratroopers, to prepare them for possible captivity.

According to what I read, most nations train their elite soldiers this way, but on the other hand, elite soldiers are volonteers even in nations with conscription.

[GePap]

Those were NOT the tactics being used here, as far as the scandal goes. Much worse things were being done.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by GePap
While this is certanly a big deal, I don't think it is as big a deal in Iraq itself as we make it-outside Iraq, yes, inside it?

The guys getting tortured, molested, in some cases shot were not the most popular men in Iraq, so I doubt anyone besides the families is shedding many tears for them-people in Iraq aren;t anymore caring for their fellow man than anyone else.

In other arab states, certainly it is a PR disaster, but then, so was the whole Iraq war, and Bush's support for Sharon (which in the end didn;t do anything for Sharon either), so this is icing on a vast cake, not the cake itself.

I posted this before, but according to a Swedish reporter in Iraq, people on the street in Baghdad are more upset about the marines' brutal assault on Falluja than about this. The unrepareable damage was already done, and this was just a confirmation of what people already knew - USA is bad.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by DanS


Well, there is a plurality of opinions. Nothing wrong with that.

There is when you are playing to the Arab street. Why couldn't he have kept his mouth shut. Politics is the art of knowing what not to say.

[chequita guevara]

My god my people are stupid.

[Boris Godunov]

Rumsfeld has indicated that there exist more pics and videos that are far worse than what has already been seen. Sen. Graham noted that the worst was yet to come as well with these things. Urrrrrrggggh.

[chequita guevara]

Well, I guess I'm not visiting the ME anytime in my life.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Sen. Graham noted that the worst was yet to come as well with these things. Urrrrrrggggh.

Worse than sodomizing people with a chem light! :vomit: