52 former diplomats bash Blair in public letter.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Agathon
But you are confusing a formal fallacy with a substantive fallacy.

Well, you're the philosophy expert, so I'll defer to you

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Why the hell do kids think that passing Philosophy 110 qualifies them to argue about the subject with professional philosophers?

I don't. I've never taken it

[Edan]

A search of google returned the following interesting comments on "General Ouze Merham" from the quote

> To follow it up:
>
> Searching on yahoo with the words +general +merham -sharon yields nine
> hits, some in
> foreign languages that I can't read:
>
> http://www.devrimcidemokrasi.org/gun...29/haber10.htm
> appears to be the same thing with an Sharon spelled in whatever language
> that page is in.
>
> http://www.evrensel.net/02/04/03/kose.html
> appears the same
>
> The rest all clearly not relevant, generally having the words general
> and merham spaced too far apart to be relevant.

These sites look to be Turkish. What's interesting is that the
general's name appears on both pages as "Quze Merham", not "Ouze Merham"
as in the English-language versions. Googling for "quze" doesn't turn
up much of anything in Turkish or Arabic, but I happened across this
bizarre proverb in Kurdish:

--------

http://www.cogsci.ed.ac.uk/~siamakr/Kurdish/Idiom/a1.html

ew kIr-e me-tirs-ew, qUz-e me-lerze, be kar na-y-e
this penis not-fear, vagina not-shake to work not-come
We should put aside fear and face the problem bravely.
--------

Checking an online dictionary, "quz" does indeed mean "vagina" in
Kurdish. (The "-e" at the end of the word, known as an "ezafe", is a
kind of attributive marker used in Kurdish and Persian.) The word
"marham" appears in the same dictionary with the meaning of "ointment"
(a borrowing from Arabic, as noted elsethread):

http://people.smartchat.net.au/~jeljiashakh/Q-shaf10.html

http://people.smartchat.net.au/~jeljiashakh/M-shaf5.html

So if I'm not mistaken, "quz-e marham" would mean "vaginal ointment" in
Kurdish. I'd conjecture that the story originated with a Kurdish
prankster who managed to get it printed on some Turkish sites, and that
the story was subsequently vectored by English-language sources with
"Quze" misspelled as "Ouze".

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl4274217088d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=ISO-8859-1&safe=off&selm=3D101F8A.F98D28A%40midway.uchicago.edu

[Gibsie]

Oh dear... lol.

[Tripledoc]

On the other hand.

Merham, not marham, is a common lastname in English, Ouze is perhaps a rare name, but it is perhaps refering to a river in England. Is it true that Sharon was at a military college in Britain in 1956?

I don't know where this preoccupation with 'vaginal ointments' comes from? But I have read the thread you pasted from, and it does not seem convincing.

In any case it is far fetched that, quz-e marham, should turn from the Kurdish (?) into Ouze Merham.

However, I am willing to accept that the quote is of questionable origin. So there.

[Az]

bump

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/05/02/ndips02.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/05/02/ixportal.html

[Sirotnikov]

Quoted:

Diplomats failed to disclose their own Arab links
By Chris Hastings, David Bamber and Roya Nikkhah
(Filed: 02/05/2004)

Some of the most prominent former diplomats who condemned Tony Blair's policies in the Middle East have business links with Arab governments, The Telegraph can reveal.

In a letter published last week, 52 former British diplomats condemned the invasion of Iraq and the Government's support for Israel.

Click to enlarge

The letter failed to disclose, however, that several of the key signatories, including Oliver Miles, the former British ambassador to Libya who instigated the letter, are paid by pro-Arab organisations.

Some of the others hold positions in companies seeking lucrative Middle East contracts, while others have unpaid positions with pro-Arab organisations.

The disclosure last night prompted allegations - denied by the diplomats - that they were merely promoting the interests of their clients. Andrew Dismore, the Labour MP for Hendon, said: "If an MP had made statements like these without declaring an interest in the subject they would have been before the standards and privileges committee we would have had their guts for garters.

"This casts a very different light on what the former diplomats have said."

...

[Ted Striker]

Conflict of interests there?

NO LETTER WRITING FOR OIL!!!!

[Kuciwalker]

Sounds like they've become lobbyists

[muxec]

Ya, 52 is a nice number. Number of cards in deck (most wanted deck)

[Fake Boris]

So, who is the boss of the Telegraph? Are we to dismiss the claims of the paper because it's defending the interests of the paper?

[Fake Boris]

The letter failed to disclose, however, that several of the key signatories, including Oliver Miles, the former British ambassador to Libya who instigated the letter, are paid by pro-Arab organisations.

George W. Bush is being paid by a pro-American organization. Therefore, all his statements are false.

Some of the others hold positions in companies seeking lucrative Middle East contracts [...]

In other words, they would be the first to be hurt by an American withdrawal from Iraq.

[...] while others have unpaid positions with pro-Arab organisations.

[Sirotnikov]

George W. Bush is being paid by a pro-American organization. Therefore, all his statements are false.

And what is the name of that organization?

In other words, they would be the first to be hurt by an American withdrawal from Iraq.

nice strawman.

They seek to be hired by Arab governments - not by US.

[Edan]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

George W. Bush is being paid by a pro-American organization. Therefore, all his statements are false.

And what is the name of that organization?

The American population. Bush has an pro-American bias! How dare he not disclose that.

[Drake Tungsten]

If Poly is any indication, the American population is full of people who aren't pro-American...