Should Japan Return The Czar's Gold?

[DanS]

$80 billion worth. That's a whole lotta moolah!

There's got to be a movie about this.

Russia presses Japan for czar's gold

Moscow, , Apr. 26 (UPI) -- Russia has stepped up diplomatic pressure on Japan for the return of billions of dollar's worth of the last czar's gold, the Moscow Times reported Monday.

Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Yakovenko revived the long dormant issue and made "certain inquiries to the Japanese side" about getting the gold returned after 84 years, the Moscow Times said, citing an Interfax news agency report.

The gold was shipped to Japan by anti-Bolshevik rebels in 1920 and still sits in Tokyo bank vaults with an estimated value of $80 billion, the Moscow Times said. That amount is close to the value of "Russia's total gold and currency reserves and enough to pay two-thirds of Russia's foreign debt," the paper said.

The gold "remains an irritant to Moscow's warming relations with Tokyo along with a territorial dispute in the Far East," the paper said.

[Nubclear]

Of course.

[JohnT]

$80billion in gold... $9 million in back rent for the US Ambassador's apartments in Moscow... sounds like the Russkie's are trying to dig up as much cash as possible. Perhaps they oughtta check the couch cushions.

Russia seeks hike in U.S. ambassador's $3 rent

MOSCOW (Reuters) - The United States pays less than three dollars a year for its ambassador's opulent Moscow residence and Russia is seeking nine million dollars in back rent, Interfax news agency reported on Monday.

Since the rent for Spaso House in central Moscow was set in 1985, the Soviet Union has collapsed and the rouble has lost more than 99.9 percent of its value, cutting the vast mansion's annual rent to around $2.50, the agency reported.

Spaso House was built in 1914 for a rich merchant and was seized by communist revolutionaries three years later, before becoming home to the U.S. envoy in 1933.

With a domed, 82-foot (25-metre) main hall, the residence is one of the most prestigious in Moscow, where rents held low in the Soviet era have soared to rival those of London and Tokyo.

The U.S. embassy declined to comment, but Ambassador Alexander Vershbow has previously said he wants to resolve the issue and draw up a new contract.

[Verto]

That's a lot of money.

[DanS]

By Maria Golovnina

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia wants to start talks with Japan to return billions of dollars worth of the last Czar's gold, which ended up in a Tokyo bank in the chaotic years of the Russian Civil War, the Foreign Ministry said on Thursday.

The gold, shipped to Japan by "white army" commander Admiral Alexander Kolchak in the closing days of anti-Bolshevik resistance, remains an irritant to Moscow's warming relations with Tokyo along with a territorial dispute in the far east.

Tokyo and Moscow, which have yet to sign a peace treaty formally ending their World War II conflict, have made little progress on the fate of the Czarist gold since the issue sprang to the top of their bilateral agenda after the Soviet collapse.

But recently, Russia made "certain investigations and inquiries to the Japanese side," Interfax news agency quoted foreign ministry spokesman Alexander Yakovenko as saying.

"The theme of the Russian gold in Japan is not a subject of diplomatic negotiations between our countries at the moment. But this does not mean the Russian foreign ministry is ignoring the issue," Yakovenko said.

"Russia and Japan are trying to build good, neighborly relations...Such trust calls to remove doubts and stop sweeping things under the carpet."

In 1994, Russia unearthed documents testifying that Admiral Kolchak, a "white" commander killed by the Bolsheviks in 1920, had sent at least 22 boxes filled with gold ingots to Japan for storage.

Researcher Vladlen Sirotkin, in a widely publicised study in 2000, said the gold was given to Japan in exchange for weapons, but Admiral Kolchak had received no military hardware.

Sirotkin estimated that, if interest is taken into account for the time the gold has been in Japan, it would now be worth $80 billion, similar to Russia's total gold and foreign currency reserves and enough to pay two-thirds of Russia's foreign debt.

Interfax said the bullion is now held at Japan's Bank of Tokyo Mitsubishi. But diplomatic sources say a lack of evidence prevents Russia from turning it into a big diplomatic issue. Japan has not officially commented on the matter.

Russia has refused Japan's demand to return four small islands in the far east seized in the final days of World War II.

According to some estimates, Russia has claims to foreign property worth up to $400 billion, including tons of Czarist gold stored in Japanese, European and U.S. banks.

Here's a more detailed article. Fascinating stuff.

[JohnT]

Sirotkin estimated that, if interest is taken into account for the time the gold has been in Japan, it would now be worth $80 billion, similar to Russia's total gold and foreign currency reserves and enough to pay two-thirds of Russia's foreign debt.

Idiot. He oughtta appraise the value of the coins themselves... they might be worth more than their weight in gold.

Anyway, that sounds like a mighty convenient figure.

[Drake Tungsten]

How about a trade? Russia can have the czar's gold back if they agree to give back the islands (Sakhalin & Kuriles) that they stole from Japan...

[JohnT]

Japan's response: Don't make us destroy your navy again!

[DanS]

Are the islands worth that much?

Also, I note that $80 billion doesn't appear to be the real worth of the gold. You never know. $79 billion of it could be the interest.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by JohnT
Japan's response: Don't make us destroy your navy again!

A common joke:
Russian navy? What navy?

[Drake Tungsten]

A common joke:
Russian navy? What navy?

It's funny because it's true.

[Nubclear]

If the Japanese want to destroy our navy in exchange for the gold.... Russia will certainly agree

[Dinner]

Interest should not even be considered. People should figure out how much Czarist gold coins are worth and then calculate the value based upon that. Then Japan should demand the southern part of the Kirul Islands which the Soviets stole from them be returned inexchange for the gold.

[SnowFire]

DanS: Doubtful, but territory is an issue of pride and all. Bad form to let those disputes continue.

Besides, in a Civ game, if you're offered money for control of a city, what do you do? Turn the offer down. You gotta have more territory and research beakers if you want to construct a ship to go to Alpha Centauri.

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
How about a trade? Russia can have the czar's gold back if they agree to give back the islands (Sakhalin & Kuriles) that they stole from Japan...

Exactly. They want their gold back...Japan wants their islands back. If Russia gives back the Karafuto islands (Sakhalin), then Japan should give the gold back.

If Russia expects Japan to just hand over the gold....then, that's being a little greedy, isn't it?