Is Russia really any better with Democracy/Capitialism?

[Saras]

Originally posted by Serb
Was it a violation of treaties signed between Lithuania and Russian Federation (which was the first country who recognized Lithuanian independence)? Was it illegal?

Why are you so fast to turn into a hair-splitting Clinton when it comes to Russia, as ooposed to the righteous champion of "legality" in international affairs that do not involve Russia?

[Saras]

Oh, and it was Iceland that first recognized our independence (January 1991). So there

[Cruddy]

Re: Is Russia really any better with Democracy/Capitialism?

Originally posted by Uber KruX
I'd like to see honest statistics

Oxymoron, surely?

Statistics are a tool to strengthen an argument. By themselves they don't PROVE much (except that statiscians are a devious bunch).

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Forgive me if this has already been said Uber but who the hell told you that Russia has either Democracy or Capitalism?

[Lefty Scaevola]

Yeah, the more pertinent question IS whether Russia has democracy or capitalism.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Vince278
Noooooooo....
{Vince is now unavailable for comment. He has been sent to a lumbermill in Siberia where Serb is probably beating him red, white, and blue (ironically both our national colours) with lumber of varying sizes. }

I'm pleased to report that I have returned from the re-education camp at the lumbermill and it was an unqualified success. I had all those Ruskie's singing "God Bless America" and "America the Beautiful" before I left.

[Last Conformist]

Serb: You're just jealous 'cos we make better vodka than you!

[Saras]

Actually you don't. Absolut is cack.

[Lord Merciless]

Don't worry. Russkies will sooner or later die out and be replaced by the Chinese.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Serb


And Americans are so superior that they even did not exist at those times and took their name from gay, oldfart alcholoc Amerigo vip Gucchi, who ocasionally discovered that they occupy entire new continent, not India as they thought.

Alcohol is my anti-drug.

Really? And what makes you think so? What makes you think that you, YOU could defeat Russians who just destroyed one of the strongest armies in human history- the Hitler's army?
You are living in a fantasy world. In 1945 Red Army was the strongest, most experienced and better euipped army on this planet.

I was refering to holding off on opening a second front in France, one which Stalin was begging for, incidently.

At least a bit of gratitute for saving Europe from the Corsican butcher.

Alright. Thanks for stopping Napoleon, especially as he's the one that cut out of the potential deal to split Europe in two with Russia.

And what makes you think so? You brake interrnational laws whenever you wish. You're number one gangster on this planet.

Because, unlike a certain other country. *cough* Russia! *cough* we don't intentionaly go after civilian targets.

What native lands? Russia is the native land for more than 170 nationalities and none of them was exterminated or thrown to reservations (like you did) all of them remains as individual ethnic groups with their unique cultures. And all of them have the same rights. But I doubt you will understand this. You've abondoned segregation only a few decades ago, after all.

Pfff....what about the mass deportations of the assorted caucus nationalities to Central Asia? What about the mysterious disappearence of the Volga Germans? What about the occupation of Yakut land in Siberia? (Free our Inuit bretheren!) What about stomping down on National groups that do wish to secede? What about handling said groups by f--king leveling their cities? What about the enforced "Russification", and the subsequent oppression of religions under both Tsarist and Communist Russia?

I don't claim America has the most blindingly fair history, but Russia's hands are every bit as dirty as ours, and, if desease had as big a factor in your expansion they'd probably be dirtier. We're just honest enough with ourselves and others to admit it.

What "nya"? Russia never occupied lands of country that ends with "nya". Never. The only thing which comes to mind is "xyu-nya", but it's not a country. It's a swearing.

Chechnya comes to mind. I'm afraid I don't know the Russian spelling.

Russia might be in ****e NOW, but she will get here crap together sooner or later, like she always do. On the other hand, US was and will remain complete **** forever. You are doomed and we will bury you, because self-destruction is your nature.

Because we've had a grand total of one civil war and you've had endless coups, revolutions, and civil wars in your history?

Yep, I know who's more self destructing.

Sure. When the hell you had balls to attack someone on your own? Chickens

Or maybe we're inclined to mind our own damn buisness. Remember, we're a nation of Draft-dodgers. Why do you think so many Germans came over to the states in the 1800s?

However....

Starting from1798:

1798: The quasi-war with France
1801-1815: The Barbary Wars
1846-47: The Mexican War (Don't laugh...their army was three times ours' size)
1860-65: The Civil War, largest General War anywhere since the Napoleonic wars.
1898: War with Spain
1898-1904: The Phillippine Insurrection
1906-1922: A million fricking interventions in Central America
1916: The Mexican Expedition
1962-1973: 'Nam

Followed by the Dominacn Republic, Grenada, Panama, Haiti, etc.

Firstly, the Soviet Union never gave its blessing for this. USSR abstained in UN.

No country ever abstains in the UNSC unless that's their quiet approval and you know it.

Secondly, when the hell you Yankees will understand that if one or even whole bunch of your lackeys are shouting "we are with you master, let's get them", it doesn't legalize your actions. What you have done was an international crime- an agression against sovereign country. And I don't care how many of your minions supported this crime. It doesn't make your crime justified. It's just make your minions a criminals too.

History will judge that.

And how many countries Russia invaded within last 13 years?

Chechnya, Modavia, continued occupation of Central Asian countries. And this is with your military power diminished. Before that we had Afghanistan, China, Hungary, Czech Republic, all those "liberated" eastern Europen countries, and the Baltic states.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Serb
We can always return them, just whistle.

Seriously speaking, do you really believe that its possible to withdraw such army within weaks? Was it a violation of treaties signed between Lithuania and Russian Federation (which was the first country who recognized Lithuanian independence)? Was it illegal?

Israel did it in Lebanon within a matter of days.

[Lonestar]

Re: Re: Is Russia really any better with Democracy/Capitialism?

Originally posted by Cruddy


Oxymoron, surely?

Statistics are a tool to strengthen an argument. By themselves they don't PROVE much (except that statiscians are a devious bunch).

"Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics."

[David Floyd]

During the Cold War, I would call Russia, in parts, the leader in power.

Not really. The Soviet Union always lagged far behind the United States in economic strength, and the US possessed a FAR greater share of world GNP and world manufacturing, as well as a per capita GNP of more than double that of the USSR. Economic and industrial strength translates into long term military strength. It's true that the Soviet Union maintained conventional GROUND forces (but not air or naval forces) superior to any other individual nation (at least until the mid 1980s), but this power was only relevant in the short run, and was achieved at the expense of greater economic growth (and thus at the expense of long term potential power).

If the want to talk about nuclear weapons, then the US was either markedly superior, or both sides possessed a sufficient amount of weapons to totally destroy the other, depending on the time period in question.

[David Floyd]

Really? And what makes you think so? What makes you think that you, YOU could defeat Russians who just destroyed one of the strongest armies in human history- the Hitler's army?

Atomic weapons, superior air and naval power, far superior economic power, and far superior industrial strength. Even if the Soviets overran all of Europe in 1945 (unlikely), the US would STILL retain these advantages.

Oh, and with regards to the Napoleonic Wars, it was the English who provided the subsidies for the successive coalitions against France, and to a large degree paid for the huge Austrian and Russian armies, while at the same time maintaining a strong naval blockade against France AND committing large forces to Spain, forces which eventually defeated the 300,000+ French and Allied troops in Spain and invaded southern France. It was the English who provided the economic means to defeat Napoleon, not the Russians, or Austrians, or Prussians, or Swedes, or anyone else.

[David Floyd]

Lonestar,

Don't forget that we also attacked Germany on a pretext in WW1.