Vanunu Goes Free

[East Street Trader]

I am glad to know that the solitary confinement was relieved to the extent you describe, Sirotnikov.

But it was still hard on this man to leave him to spend such an enormous amount of time alone.

[PLATO]

Israel is not a declared member of the "nuclear club" in the NPT. This would subject them to being cut off from U.S. aid if they admitted having nukes. They need everybody to believe it while not admitting it and also not having any proof out there. Vanunu came too close to providing proof and Israel had to silence him to maintain the status quo.

[dannubis]

the question still stands ...

pakistan has also nukes. and is a key ally of the US in the far east
do you really think the US would drop Isreal if they admitted having nuclear weapons ?

the real problem is that iran and at that time iraq were developping nukes of their own. and even the israeli governement saw the hypocrisy in protesting the fact that an islamic country was devlopping nukes, while they were building their own.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by dannubis

do you really think the US would drop Isreal if they admitted having nuclear weapons ?

Of course not, but it would cause a change in US law and policy that would weaken our position WRT "rogue" nations.

[East Street Trader]

I have never been much impressed with the proposition that the threat of nuclear retaliation deters those who like to start wars.

And the present situation with Iraq has done nothing to make the proposition seem any more credible. Bush and Blair precipitated a war in this case specifically because they believed Iraq had hideous weapons.

Happily they were mistaken.

But their belief certainly did not deter them.

[dannubis]

Originally posted by PLATO


Of course not, but it would cause a change in US law and policy that would weaken our position WRT "rogue" nations.

so you are saying that it would have a negative effect on the US position vis a vis the israeli nuclear arsenal ?

because in this perticular case, that's what israel obviously is, a 'rogue" nation.

[PLATO]

Yes...It would make it harder to apply the double standard. WRT nuclear weapon development, Israel is a rogue nation. The saving grace is that they seem to be alluding to a "no first use" policy. Israel's nukes must remain un-admitted in order for the world to keep declaring the ME as a nuke free zone. Surely that greater goal is worth pursuing. We can only hope that if there is ever peace there that pressure will be brought to bear on Israel to destroy any nukes it may have.

[dannubis]

hmmm. i agree with you on the latter...
but i don't get the reason why the ME has to be a nuke free zone. It clearly doesn't stop the violence. Israel can't use its nukes because technically they don't exist. If they do use them they end up glowing in the dark themselves... So what's the point in having them ?

and in this regard, what vanunu did was exposure of this weapons program. He did not sell any technology to rivalling countries, so i don't see how you could call this guy a traitor...

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Clive Ponting discovered the Government (Thatcher's) was deliberately misleading Parliament over the cost of Trident

not the same thing.

i wonder what would have happenned had he discovered some defense secret.

Like maybe Daniel Ellsberg and The Pentagon Papers?

[Az]

A nuke free ME by agreement is never going to happen. Israel would never disarm, but neither would Pakistan, due to India. India wouldn't disarm due to China, and China wouldn't disarm due to Russia, and the USA.

Oh, and the nukes already helped Israel once: during 73'.

[chequita guevara]

PLATO has been entirely correct in this thread. The U.S. would not cut off Israel, despite our laws, just as we have ended sanctions against both Pakistan and India. But it would make our hypocricy even more blatent, even in the United States.

[our_man]

~~~

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Azazel
Isn't he hailed as a hero by everyone, anyway? Just look at the other thread. I think that he broke the law, on purpose, so there is nothing wrong with jailing him.

Why should you suddenly care about the law now, seeing as Israel breaks a number of international laws regarding the Palestinians every single day!?

How can you even type that with a straight face!!?

[Az]

Why should you suddenly care about the law now, seeing as Israel breaks a number of international laws regarding the Palestinians every single day!?

I am talking about a real law, you know, one that is enforced.

[GePap]

So in terms of Nukes in the ME, should Iran drop out of the NPT and openly declare an intention o develop nukes? After all, they have an openyl nuclear neighbor, unlike Irsae, and face hostility from two other nuclear states (Israel and the US)-and they lack a conventional superiority againt them so heck, Iran has as many valid reasons for NUkes as Israel has. And heck, they already face US sanctions, sho big whoop.