Will the Bushies Ever Accept the Truth???

[Lawrence of Arabia]

notice how they are focusing on only one out of like 10 points. does silence mean guilt?

[rah]

No

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Well, there was always the possibility that Saddam could have gotten a bit of sense and decided to chow down on a little Texas longhorn, rather than duke it out with us.

Do you mean in 1990 or in 2003?

As I recall, Hussein was bending over backwards to try and comply with the ultimatum given him by the Prez (except the last one to get out). They simply didn't have the means to acount for stuff that had gotten lost over the years. After all, it's not like the U.S. doesn't have tons of lost/missing/unaccounted WMDs.

But as LoA points out, this is really a sidetrack. The point isn't that they made the plans. The point is they made them then said they didn't and have been attacking those that outted them as liars. What's the problem with admitting the truth (except at this point having denied it for so long it would expose their duplicity).

[rah]

I still don't get it.
Asking for updated plans is not the same as saying the decision had been made to do it. Thinking about doing it and deciding to go ahead are also two different things.
Judging the difference seems to be speculation, and that's all I've heard here. No proof of lying. Just speculation. I'm sure GW has wanted to knock Saddam off for a while(probably since daddy didn't finish it off). But when did he make the decision to GO.

[chequita guevara]

Can you get this?

# Former British ambassador Christopher Meyer confirmed that "President Bush first asked British Prime Minister Tony Blair to support the removal of Saddam Hussein from power at a private White House dinner nine days after" Sept. 11.

Again, this isn't really the point. The point is that once this information was revealed, the Administration and its suporters went into full attack mode, calling O'Neal, Clarke, Meyer, etc. all liars.

[rah]

No, so what if he was trying to drum up support. Testing the waters. That doesn't mean he had committed to it. He may have wanted it. That's still a gray area and if someone is saying that it was a done deal and it wasn't, then he was speculating. (I wouldn't consider it lying if that's what they believed)

[I Am Jeff]

It is not that hard of a concept to understand.

People are not mad that they asked for updated plans.

THEY are only mad because they lied about asking for updated plans. If someone soon after 9-11 asked, "have you given orders to update Iraq war plans?", and the administration said, "yes". There would be no controversey.

It is because they (bush) repeatedly bashed people who said that bush gave the order for updated war plans in Iraq.

Whether that in itself is a valid concern or not, that is up to the individual. But it makes you think that if they lied about that, something simple and not harmfull as this, what else they may have lied about?

[Japher]

About 2 years ago I was making a Rum and Coke, really it's a Roy Rogers and Rum (I like a little Grenadine in it), while my wife was on the phone. Now, the liquor cabinet, which I rarely visit, is above the fridge, and as I was reaching for the rum I knocked over the Grenadine. Anyone who has ever spilt grinadine knows how sticky it is, and that it isn't the easiest thing to clean-up.

Anyway, most of the grenadine spilt on the top of the fridge and was oozing down the back of it. So, I pulled the fridge out to get back there to clean it up. As I did this the water line, that normally feeds an ice maker if you have one (and I don't), got snagged under the fridge and tore, sending water flowing all over the floor.

I called for my wife to help or we would have a flood in the kitchen, and like most women told me to clean up my own mess. So, what did I do?

Freaked out, asked for help, got denied

I then Freaked out some more, before getting my vice grips and pinching of the water line (those vice grips are still there by the way)

I then got the mop and cleaned up all the water and glass that was on the floor.

I then grabbed a sponge and took care of the grenadine, which was the problem to begin with.

Why am I telling you this? Because that is what the Bush administration did.

They freaked out (the first few days after 9-11), addressed the current most addressable problem (Afganistan), took care of that (or at least pinched the line and left the vice on it), asked for help, got denied, got the mop, and took care of the problem that caused the water to leak in the first place (Iraq, supposidly).

Still, I blame a lot of people for putting the Grenadine on the fridge in the first place! That was an accident waiting to happen... Crap! I put that bottle there

[I Am Jeff]

However Iraw really is not the problem, sure it was good to free the people of Iraq, but still Iraq was not the source of the problem.

If anything, Iraq with saddam was good at not allowing terror. Do you really think Saddam would let someone like Osama hide in his country? Or do you think Saddam would allow for the crazy Islamic fundamentalist? Of course he wouldn't, because it would eat away at his power. Now that Saddam is gone, you constantly hear about the clerics in Iraq and their dislike of the U.S. and in some instances encouragement to resist agains the U.S.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Do you mean in 1990 or in 2003?

As I recall, Hussein was bending over backwards to try and comply with the ultimatum given him by the Prez (except the last one to get out). They simply didn't have the means to acount for stuff that had gotten lost over the years. After all, it's not like the U.S. doesn't have tons of lost/missing/unaccounted WMDs.

Sure they had the means. By not kicking out inspectors and playing games in the first place. It really wouldn't have taken that much work on Saddam's part to comply with all of the operative post GW1 UNSCRs, then sanctions would have had to be lifted, and ol' Saddam would still be in power. He was just too busy playing his "Baby Milk Plant" brand of horse**** fun and games.

[MrFun]

But MTG in spite of all that, and in spite of Saddam being a mass murderer and all, SURELY he has been seriously and unfairly misunderstood!

He must have had bad parents or something.

[GePap]

Again, as Che is saying, the problem is that the admin. told the American people and the Congress that it would "give peace a chance" in a way, and that war was not sure. IF the admin. had made the decision to go to war before going to congress in October 2002, then it essentially misled congress.

And it did not need to-it could always have gone to congress and said removing Saddam was already US policy, we are going to remove it, give us the support, blah-but they didn't for political reasons-and they misled the congress and the people that congress represents, even if people don't care anymore.

[Japher]

Do you really think Saddam would let someone like Osama hide in his country?

Yes.

Or do you think Saddam would allow for the crazy Islamic fundamentalist?

Saddam WAS a crazy islamic fundie!

because it would eat away at his power.

Not really.

Now that Saddam is gone, you constantly hear about the clerics in Iraq and their dislike of the U.S. and in some instances encouragement to resist agains the U.S.

Thanks for proving my point.

He must have had bad parents or something

Not really. I think he was raised by his grandma and uncle, or something.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But as rah pointed out, making plans and testing the waters with Britain does NOT mean that the decision to go to war had been made.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
But as rah pointed out, making plans and testing the waters with Britain does NOT mean that the decision to go to war had been made.

The ambassador did not say testing the waters-in other comments (all of this to Vanity Fair) he basically states the decision was made by mid-2002.

As someone on Hardball said, basically people are quibling between when a decsion was made, and when it was exectuted.

Again, Bush wanted regime change-there was no compromise when it came to regime change-even if Saddam left volutarily, the US military would have hqad to go in.