Israel Kills Rantisi, New Hamas Leader.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Rantisi self proclaimed himself to inherit Yassin's role.

Yep.

[SlowwHand]

Brzezinski ? That's the definitive say.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Agathon
It's still true. I don't like it any more than you do - I'm no fan of OBL - that's why I oppose stupid policies that empower him and his ilk.

Or are you doing to tell me that he isn't winning hearts and minds. The US certainly isn't, even among it's allies.

I just saw Brzezinski and Kissinger interviewed on television. Both agreed that the Bush administration's FP is incompetent, unworkable and is doing more harm than good. Know what? They're right.

You are taking cues from Kissinger?

[Agathon]

Both he and Kissinger. I wouldn't call either of them lefty commie sympathisers.

Brzezinski's Grand Chessboard book is a good read. It's a thesis on the responsible use of American power.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Agathon
The problem is that the lesson of history is that you may kill people and conquer territory but you cannot win unless the majority of the population is on side. Vietnam proved that, as did countless anti-colonial struggles. Bush and Sharon are on the wrong side of history, only they haven't noticed.

The only lesson history teaches us here (Religious extremists in Palestine) comes from Rome's experience with the Jews. And what the Romans learned was that the only way to handle the problem was equal parts brutality, determination, and ethnic cleansing.

[Az]

I just saw Brzezinski and Kissinger interviewed on television. Both agreed that the Bush administration's FP is incompetent, unworkable and is doing more harm than good. Know what? They're right.

They're both *******s. What's your point?

More and more Arabs will be looking at the facts and becoming more sympathetic to his (frankly bizarre) ideas. That means more terrorists, since terrorism is the only way they have of fighting back. The problem is that the lesson of history is that you may kill people and conquer territory but you cannot win unless the majority of the population is on side. Vietnam proved that, as did countless anti-colonial struggles. Bush and Sharon are on the wrong side of history, only they haven't noticed.

Either on your side, or not willing to fight. Anti-colonial struggles are really not different from any other struggle. Once the Palestinians will wake up, and do a simple cost/benefit analysis, they'll realise that they shouldn't support terrorism, and demand the de-facto destruction of Israel. Of course, doing that will mean they've suffered for nothing for 50 years, and that is a very hard thing to realize.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Azazel

Once the Palestinians will wake up, and do a simple cost/benefit analysis, they'll realise that they shouldn't support terrorism, and demand the de-facto destruction of Israel. Of course, doing that will mean they've suffered for nothing for 50 years, and that is a very hard thing to realize.

Amen. The PAL's are and have been their own worst enemy.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ted Striker


You are taking cues from Kissinger?

I think he's evil, I don't think he's stupid.

I guess I'm saying that when such people start criticising Bush it is a sign that there is something seriously wrong. Kissinger would pretty much do anything in the service of US interests - the fact that he dissents here shows that it's not the aim but the methods that he believes are wrong.

I've been saying this ever since I got on this board. Bush and co. are incompetent - whatever one thinks about their aims. Their idea of foreign policy is basically that everyone loves "freedom" and that if we try to give it to them they will love us. That's about as sophisticated as they get. Unfortunately that's a grade school view of international relations.

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by Felch


The only lesson history teaches us here (Religious extremists in Palestine) comes from Rome's experience with the Jews. And what the Romans learned was that the only way to handle the problem was equal parts brutality, determination, and ethnic cleansing.

But it is better dying standing on your feet, than be enslaved. This the Carthagenians, the Celts, the Native Indians, the Poles, the Russians, the Vietnamese and the Afghans have shown us. And history have condemned their oppressors - for eternity.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Felch


The only lesson history teaches us here (Religious extremists in Palestine) comes from Rome's experience with the Jews. And what the Romans learned was that the only way to handle the problem was equal parts brutality, determination, and ethnic cleansing.

I guess the fact that there was no mass communication made no difference. We don't live in that world any more.

[The Mad Monk]

Say what you want about Kissinger, the man knows foreign policy.

I'd be interested in a transcript.

[Az]

And history have condemned their oppressors - for eternity.

no it didn't.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Azazel

Either on your side, or not willing to fight. Anti-colonial struggles are really not different from any other struggle. Once the Palestinians will wake up, and do a simple cost/benefit analysis, they'll realise that they shouldn't support terrorism, and demand the de-facto destruction of Israel. Of course, doing that will mean they've suffered for nothing for 50 years, and that is a very hard thing to realize.

Once the Palestinians will wake up? Given that they haven't after 50 years is somewhat of an indication. The Vietnamese struggled for longer and suffered more casualties. And the Palestinians don't have to give up: right is on their side. Israel is the bad guy here - conquest is prohibited by the UN Charter, which Israel is signatory to. The fact that you have the US on your side for now makes enforcement difficult, but things won't always be that way - and if you keep behaving like this, when things change, you are toast.

The US gains very little from supporting Israel. Since the end of the Cold War there isn't much need. Sooner or later policies will change to reflect this new reality.

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by Azazel

And history have condemned their oppressors - for eternity.

no it didn't.

It will, because I intend to write it.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Say what you want about Kissinger, the man knows foreign policy.

I'd be interested in a transcript.

I can't find one, sorry. It was on TVO (ontario rival to PBS).