Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Doesn't the service industry preclude communist revolt?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I don't see welfare so much as a delay of communism, but a step towards communism. Look at Europe now (or 20 years ago), state owned industries, huge welfare states, etc. Communism creeps in slowly, as the government takes over more and more of society until there is nothing left and a communist state exists.

    Sure thats not Marxism, but it looks like thats whats happening to me.
    Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

    When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

    Comment


    • #17
      Iain Banks has it correct: Communism will be a great system when we are able to tap stars for energy sources, machines do all physical labor, nanotechnology provides all, and people are bored and well-fed. Until then, we need Capitalism to get us there.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by OzzyKP
        I don't see welfare so much as a delay of communism, but a step towards communism.
        No, it's definately a delay. The existence of a workers state in the East meant that the threat of was real. Revolution could happen. Welfare reforms were grduingly given up by the capitalists in order to hold on to the rest of their power. Better to lose 50% than to lose 100%.

        As long as the workers have enough to eat, have decent housing, access to health care, and are reasonably secure in their future, they aren't very likely to revolt (though Mai '68 shows it's not impossible).

        Now that the USSR's collapsed, the welfare states are busy trying to figure out how to take these reforms back.
        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by chegitz guevara
          As long as the workers have enough to eat, have decent housing, access to health care, and are reasonably secure in their future, they aren't very likely to revolt (though Mai '68 shows it's not impossible).
          One should not idealize Mai '68 for what it isn't. On the one hand, there were middle-class students having fun at their revolution (with a small core of serious revolutionaries), in order to shake the dull French society, and on the other hand, there were major strikes from workers demanding better working consitions. All in all, it was much more aimed at making the welfare society better, than at switching to another economic model altogether.
          "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
          "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
          "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by OzzyKP
            I don't see welfare so much as a delay of communism, but a step towards communism. Look at Europe now (or 20 years ago), state owned industries, huge welfare states, etc. Communism creeps in slowly, as the government takes over more and more of society until there is nothing left and a communist state exists.
            That is not communism, and it is silly how many times people need to be told that, over and over and over and over.
            If you don't like reality, change it! me
            "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
            "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
            "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by GePap


              That is not communism, and it is silly how many times people need to be told that, over and over and over and over.
              well, you can't cure stupid... so don't even try.
              To us, it is the BEAST.

              Comment


              • #22
                Says a person who has rejected every cure known to Man.

                Comment


                • #23
                  no, I keep cure for cancer and get +1 happy in each city
                  To us, it is the BEAST.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Ok, well when the government owns all the industry a.k.a. means of production, what would you call it?
                    Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                    When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Duh! That's neo-Communism, not Communism!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Ah, of course.

                        Would that make Keanu Reeves their enlightened dictator?
                        Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                        When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          WHOAHH! Dude its like total communism except its not.
                          "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                          “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Ozzy, I'm curious - in which European states does the government own more means of production now than they did, say 25 years ago?
                            "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
                            "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
                            "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by OzzyKP
                              Ok, well when the government owns all the industry a.k.a. means of production, what would you call it?
                              In real Communism, there is no government.
                              To us, it is the BEAST.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by OzzyKP
                                Ok, well when the government owns all the industry a.k.a. means of production, what would you call it?
                                Statist socialism, although such did not happen in western Europe. The most 'socialist' country of western Europe (Statist actually), France, was called a "mixed economy" because the very large private sector was complemented with State-owned majors.

                                Welfare is not communism by any standards, because it doesn't act upon the "who owns the means of production" question. Welfare and capitalism can meld together very well, and all social-democrats on this planet support such a model. It is possible to have a welfare State with a very tiny public sector (Bismarck's Germany comes to mind, but postwar Germany comes to mind as well)
                                "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                                "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                                "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X