The British National Party

[Starchild]

Originally posted by Derekrage
Well as a nationalist I would like people to be given a more patriotic education and look upon the accomplishments of our ancestors with a little more pride.

Now this gets my goat. One of the greatest things a modern state can aim for is giving people a balanced education neither for nor against an argument and let the people themselves come to a conclusion. What would a patriotic education do? Focus only on the good bits that don't require much moral debate? Yeah, the UK has made great advances in science, engineering, culture, society, etc. At the same time it's committed great injustices against the rest of the world. Our actions should not be displayed in a positive light. They should not be displayed in a negative light. They should be displayed and let the shadows fall where they may.

I've been at the recieving end of poor and slanted education in the past and I can tell you it's one of the greatest injustices you'll ever do to someone.

[Sandman]

Scotland's more of a nation than a culture, really.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Starchild


Now this gets my goat. One of the greatest things a modern state can aim for is giving people a balanced education neither for nor against an argument and let the people themselves come to a conclusion. What would a patriotic education do? Focus only on the good bits that don't require much moral debate? Yeah, the UK has made great advances in science, engineering, culture, society, etc. At the same time it's committed great injustices against the rest of the world. Our actions should not be displayed in a positive light. They should not be displayed in a negative light. They should be displayed and let the shadows fall where they may.

The leftist education of the last 30 years basically trashed people's confidence in their own culture. It's time for this foolishness to end.

[chequita guevara]

Nationalists would be funny if they weren't so damned dangerous.

[Derekrage]

So you admit that whether people are white or not is an issue for you?

Yes but not on a personal level.

Fact-value distinction. Let us assume for the moment that white people were here first (that is technically wrong, since Cromagnon man was here after Homo Neanderthalis, and they were of African appearance), what does it mean? What relevance is it that one group of people were present before another, thousands of years ago, to todays situation?

Because we are here now. The British people should not have another culture forced upon us against our will. There was a BBC programme about asylum a few months ago where they asked the public to vote on whether 10 people(I think) should be allowed asylum in Britain and all of them were rejected, of course there was a bunch of leftist politicians in the studio and they all said to allow every single case, shows how in touch with the public they were .

Among others, yes.

And you really think that allowing people in from Africa and the Middle East a lot of are religious fundamentalists is going to improve civil rights?

Now this gets my goat. One of the greatest things a modern state can aim for is giving people a balanced education neither for nor against an argument and let the people themselves come to a conclusion. What would a patriotic education do? Focus only on the good bits that don't require much moral debate? Yeah, the UK has made great advances in science, engineering, culture, society, etc. At the same time it's committed great injustices against the rest of the world. Our actions should not be displayed in a positive light. They should not be displayed in a negative light. They should be displayed and let the shadows fall where they may.

The education system that we have now is biased against Britain, people are coming out of schools thinking that they need to be ashamed of what their country did in the past

[Whaleboy]

The leftist education of the last 30 years basically trashed people's confidence in their own culture. It's time for this foolishness to end.

Leftist education? We're taught an egocentric history of the empire, and we hypocritically glorify the historic liberals that made society what it is today, while we demonise the same people today. We teach a victors version of both World Wars, even use the memories of the dead for nationalistic causes (I wear the white poppy, not the red one) and the vainglorious history of the Falklands I learned is woefully out of step with my former neighbour who was actually there. Confidence in your own culture is a very dangerous thing, where we think of it in emotional, not logical terms. Hasn't Socrates influenced you in any way?

[Whaleboy]

Yes but not on a personal level.

Go on...

Because we are here now. The British people should not have another culture forced upon us against our will.

That would be regarded as war, and if it is legal, and non-violent, then it is not a war and thus not against ones will. Like I said earlier, simply environmental. A culture of course is merely an abstraction of abstractions, so its imposition is almost a contradiction in terms!

there was a bunch of leftist politicians in the studio and they all said to allow every single case, shows how in touch with the public they were .

I dont deny that popular opinion is against my argument. However, that makes my, and my concurrers no less correct. Unfortunately for liberals, the arguments of populists like the BNP are perfectly attuned to play upon the uneducated fears, insecurities and general lack of knowledge of the people concerned, so unless one has a background in the fields relevant to these issues, then one is unlikely to comprehend the arguments for immigration, and thus revert back to a simplistic notion of cultural hegemony, such as is proposed by the national socialists.

You called those politicians leftists, but I would suggest that they are economically more free market than the BNP, since the BNP are highly communist. They certainly give the BCP and SWP a run for their money in terms of economics!

[Derekrage]

I dont deny that popular opinion is against my argument. However, that makes my, and my concurrers no less correct. Unfortunately for liberals, the arguments of populists like the BNP are perfectly attuned to play upon the uneducated fears, insecurities and general lack of knowledge of the people concerned, so unless one has a background in the fields relevant to these issues, then one is unlikely to comprehend the arguments for immigration, and thus revert back to a simplistic notion of cultural hegemony, such as is proposed by the national socialists.

The British people are, by you're own admission, are against letting in asylum seekers so it's time for the politicians to truly represent the people on this one. And you expect people not to feel angry the politicians selling them out?

[Derekrage]

You called those politicians leftists, but I would suggest that they are economically more free market than the BNP, since the BNP are highly communist. They certainly give the BCP and SWP a run for their money in terms of economics!

They were still leftist though, I think most of them were labour.

[Whaleboy]

The British people are, by you're own admission, are against letting in asylum seekers so it's time for the politicians to truly represent the people on this one. And you expect people not to feel angry the politicians selling them out?

I somehow doubt the capacity of a large populus to be able to decide in a reasoned, considered and educated way its sociological condition, considering that that is a highly complex issue that ranges across disciplines as diverse as ethics and economics. The British people also, if I recall correctly, seek such ridiculi as the reinstatement of the death penalty, and probably wouldn't mind too much if someone wanted to rebuild the empire! A nation, of course, should not be run upon nationalistic or populistic concerns. Would you run a school on the consensus of its students? Unless we educate people to be experts in all the required disciplines to forge a considered opinion on these matters, I'll trust people that know what they're talking about to make the decision over some random bloke on the street anyday!

However, I doubt you could support your charge that the politicians do not consider the British people at all, nor that they have "sold out" in a general sense (ignoring the PPP here of course ).

They were still leftist though, I think most of them were labour.

Labour is, economically speaking, a fair distance past centre in the direction of the right. The BNP are at the far left of the economic spectrum, they appear to be at the border of socialism and communism.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Confidence in your own culture is a very dangerous thing, where we think of it in emotional, not logical terms. Hasn't Socrates influenced you in any way?

Confidence is better than self-loathing.

While many Brits, like you, feel so ashamed about your country and culture because of the brain-washing you went through, I still consider Britain as the nation that has the greatest contribution to humankind over the last 400 years.

It was Britain that laid foundation to capitalism, representative (not mob) democracy, industrialization, and countless scientific advances. The mistakes made during colonization were quite pale compared to the achievements, and yet leftists blew those mistakes totally out of proportion in your textbooks.

[Whaleboy]

Confidence is better than self-loathing.

I somehow doubt that there is a proportional relationship between prozac consumption and the number of flags in ones vicinity. Not that I'd complain of course .

While many Brits, like you, feel so ashamed about your country and culture because of the brain-washing you went through, I still consider Britain as the nation that has the greatest contribution to humankind over the last 400 years.

Where did I say I was ashamed? Some events perhaps but not in general.

It was Britain that laid foundation to capitalism, representative (not mob) democracy, industrialization, and countless scientific advances. The mistakes made during colonization were quite pale compared to the achievements, and yet leftists blew those mistakes totally out of proportion in your textbooks.

I take a rational view to the history of the British isles. These events happened, some were benevolent, some malevolent, all of which conspired to create the world today. Basic determinism. I don't take an emotional view about it, I don't feel pride, I don't feel distate. I feel indifferent, except at the atrocities, but then, atrocities and war are the engine of change, so overall, the notion of good, bad, pride, distate, is somewhat meaningless.

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Derekrage


Yes but not on a personal level.



Because we are here now. The British people should not have another culture forced upon us against our will. There was a BBC programme about asylum a few months ago where they asked the public to vote on whether 10 people(I think) should be allowed asylum in Britain and all of them were rejected, of course there was a bunch of leftist politicians in the studio and they all said to allow every single case, shows how in touch with the public they were .




And you really think that allowing people in from Africa and the Middle East a lot of are religious fundamentalists is going to improve civil rights?

uinformed rubbish, the people you refer to were actually quite poor asylum cliams, I remember 2 specificaly 1 from zimbabwe and 1 form the Czech republic, Just because they chose crap asylum claims doesn't mean we shouldn't grant asylum to those in fera of persecution, yes a number are making up or exagerating what happened to them but alot aren't. and I do no know what I'm talking about as I work within the asylum system.

Allowing the britsh public to decide on individual claims is mob rule.

I suppose you would have advocated not allowing in Jews from europe during ww2.

Oh and please tell me where you get your info on large number of people being religious fundamentalists, being a muslim does mean you are a danger to anyone.

[Whaleboy]

I suppose you would have advocated not allowing in Jews from europe during ww2.

If I recall, that is exactly what the predecessors of the BNP did during the holocaust.

[Derekrage]

Allowing the britsh public to decide on individual claims is mob rule.

When did I say I wanted that? I was just using it as an example of how British people feel about asylum seekers.

I suppose you would have advocated not allowing in Jews from europe during ww2.

The Jews were Europeans, so I would have had no problem with letting them in.

Oh and please tell me where you get your info on large number of people being religious fundamentalists, being a muslim does mean you are a danger to anyone.

I would say 99% of the people in countries like saudi Arabia are religious fundamentalists, because of their education and propoganda.