The British National Party

[Whaleboy]

It's just people with a lot of free-time on their hands that have the opportunity to protest (ie, ******** students and the unemployed).

The degree to which your head is embedded within your colon defies all of my previous expectations of the capabilities of the human body... unless....

I've only skimmed the posts since I was last here, but the anti-immigration types haven't provided any new evidence that I can see and so I must say that I am woefully unconvinced that immigration is a necessarily bad thing. There should be limits of course, and it is not universally a good thing, but at this time most of the problem is caused by reactionaries like the BNP whose world view is threatened (sic emotivism).

The only way I can critically accept the arguments of PA and Derekrage here are if I accept the assumptions of nationalism, which seem a valid area of attack for me. I do not believe in the superiority of this nation, I don't see this culture as superior and I won't shed any tears if the little englander view of romantic British life is lost, which was the case twelve decades ago. Ultimately, people that fight and die for this nation are made to believe this their homeland is something almost holy. I base my opinions on the proposition that this assertion is woefully fallacious.

[Solly]

Would you want to repel an invader then?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by molly bloom


And the unimaginative right wingers like you and P.A. spew out cliche after cliche and glib quotes like that one with no 'facts' to back them up.

I support multiculturalism, have always lived in inner city areas, have never lived in an all white neighbourhood, and have always had at least one next door neighbour from an ethnic minority.

Do you work in politics or the media? If not then I wasn't talking about you. Try actually reading what I said for a change.

Just what is it about Johnny Foreigner that tightens the sphincters of the likes of you and P.A. ?

The slight chance that they just might be better examples of human beings than the two of you?

I see you have plenty of cliches of your own on offer - with a few insults to boot. Obviously you have nothing of value to add to this thread, but I'll humor you for now. For your information I live in one of the most racially diverse cities in the world and have hit 4 continents in my travels. I must be someone who really "hates foreigners" eh?

[Whaleboy]

In defense of myself, yes. That justifies war in defense when the nation (or more specifically the people in it) are threatened since the blame of that conflict moves to the aggressor, as the blame for all wars lies.

I wouldn't want to fight and die to defend a particular way of life, or some artificial political construct. In my opinion, my life is worth more than the abstractions and cogitations of others. Othello is a brilliant play .

[Solly]

What if the "invaders" were only wanting to remove the government and install a superior alterntive, without loss of life?

[Whaleboy]

Cali: Multiculturalism as a concept is sound in my opinion. In practise it is flawed, because it effectively creates ghettos and exacerbated tensions. On a local level of course it's fine, for example areas of good integration but that isn't occuring fast enough.

What is called for imo is not the end of multiculturalism, but rather a change in its practise.

[Whaleboy]

What if the "invaders" were only wanting to remove the government and install a superior alterntive, without loss of life?

If you can provide me with an example of war with no loss of life, I would be suprised. However, if we assume that, then no I would not oppose such a change. Since it defies the definition of a war however it's a flawed analogy.

My objection to war is the loss of life, not any political masturbation.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Cali: Multiculturalism as a concept is sound in my opinion. In practise it is flawed, because it effectively creates ghettos and exacerbated tensions. On a local level of course it's fine, for example areas of good integration but that isn't occuring fast enough.

What is called for imo is not the end of multiculturalism, but rather a change in its practise.

The problem (as I see it) with multiculturalism is that it tends to involve a mixture that is forced - diversity for the sake of diversity. I'm not totally against any kind of mixture of cultures, I just think it should be a lot more well thought out. If western countries chose only the best representatives of foreign cultures as immigrants then friction between groups would be greatly reduced.

[Whaleboy]

Hmm I don't think that's the solution though I concur with the problems. I think educating immigrants in a socratic manner is the best answer, as opposed to simply assimilating them. I also feel that the West needs greater education in the ways of other cultures. The question of immigration should most certainly be better thought out, instead of simply dumping them about randomly and expecting them to integrate into a hostile host-nation.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Hmm I don't think that's the solution though I concur with the problems. I think educating immigrants in a socratic manner is the best answer, as opposed to simply assimilating them.

It's not necessarily that we completely assimilate them (although they must be prepared to live in accordance with our laws and customs). In order for western peoples to receive the full benefits of what other cultures have to offer, the emmisaries of other cultures should be the best specimens available.

I also feel that the West needs greater education in the ways of other cultures. The question of immigration should most certainly be better thought out, instead of simply dumping them about randomly and expecting them to integrate into a hostile host-nation.

I agree. It's already difficult enough to introduce people to new cultures without the added friction of dealing with degenerates. How is anyone supposed to appreciate another culture if they only see it in the context of social problems?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Derekrage


What makes you think I've led a sheltered life? I have spent most of my adult life in the army but I wouldn't call that being sheltered, quite the opposite in fact.

I would, based on my reading on the subject and the opinions of my ex-forces friends (Irish Guards, Signals and RAF, if you're interested). Overwhelmingly white, with unquestioning obedience being an embedded value, etc.

I don't quake in fear at sight of Muslims burning the Union Jack but I do feel anger, our parents and grandparents fought world war 1 and 2 to defend Britain and what do we? Stand by and do ****all while africans and arabs start taking over British cities, do you not think it's time we started to fight for what is rightfully ours?
I hear people moaning on all the time about how the Jews settled in Palestine and stole their land yet these same people preach on and on about the wonders of multi-culturism for Britain. I just hope British people have the balls to do something about it before we are the minority in our own country and are oppressed because we are not black or Muslim.

This is paranoid nonsense. Get outside of the cities and you'll barely see any coloured faces- Britain is overwhelmingly white. In any event, how many black or Asian people do you see burning flags? You're frothing at the attitudes of a tiny minority of a minority.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Caligastia
For your information I live in one of the most racially diverse cities in the world and have hit 4 continents in my travels. I must be someone who really "hates foreigners" eh?

Certainly not. You're just convinced that they're less law-abiding in general and are worried about them as a group, and this is based on certain incidents that affected you in those racially diverse areas, right?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
What if the "invaders" were only wanting to remove the government and install a superior alterntive, without loss of life?

Like voting, for example?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


Certainly not. You're just convinced that they're less law-abiding in general and are worried about them as a group, and this is based on certain incidents that affected you in those racially diverse areas, right?

Um...sort of. We seem to be blurring the line between foreigners and different races. I wouldn't call black Americans "foreigners" - in fact I am the foreigner around here.

[Whaleboy]

It's not necessarily that we completely assimilate them (although they must be prepared to live in accordance with our laws and customs). In order for western peoples to receive the full benefits of what other cultures have to offer, the emmisaries of other cultures should be the best specimens available.

They must be educated to obey the law, and use the freedoms granted by this society, in something of an existentialist sense the notion of responsibility of freedom, including the potency of its use (free speech). As for customs, I disagree. If you educate them in a particular way of life, then you are assimilating them, which will fail in a blaze of fury. Educating them about the variant set of British customs however, is a more productive approach in my opinion.

The idea of specimen in my opinion is too subjective, since the benefits of cultural diversity have to be two way, on the sociological level that is. Furthermore, since integration occurs on the individual level (we can only measure it on the sociological), we have to consider each individual as equal. I'm not about to stratify people if they are not citizens of a particular nation.

I agree. It's already difficult enough to introduce people to new cultures without the added friction of dealing with degenerates. How is anyone supposed to appreciate another culture if they only see it in the context of social problems?

The "degenerates" are on both sides, and are, in my opinion, symptomatic of a bad multicultural policy, that further help to worsen the situation. Examples include a small number of fanatical Muslims, and the BNP.

I would, based on my reading on the subject and the opinions of my ex-forces friends (Irish Guards, Signals and RAF, if you're interested). Overwhelmingly white, with unquestioning obedience being an embedded value, etc.

It helps when you're paid to kill...

This is paranoid nonsense. Get outside of the cities and you'll barely see any coloured faces- Britain is overwhelmingly white. In any event, how many black or Asian people do you see burning flags? You're frothing at the attitudes of a tiny minority of a minority.

Agreed, a few people swept up in anger at their perceived oppression, in a Lord of the Flies -type situation does not represent one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse.

Like voting, for example?