The British National Party

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by josefstalin

But the policy is a silly interpritation. Why is it that a nearby state school had to forego Easter Celebrations at risk of "offending Muslim children". Why? Time and time again the Muslim communities insist that they are NOT offended (and why should they be offended?), but the Government thinks they know best.

OK- which act of the Government was it that stopped the Easter celebration?

[Whaleboy]

Of course the oath should be binding otherwise whats the point in having it? Anything you do that puts soldiers lives at risk should be punished but I'm not talking about a police state here, I believe you should always have the right to protest against a military action.

I am a writer, and a pacifist at that, so supposing my views caused a major impedence (through no illegal actions) of my own, would I still be forbidden? I don't think the military should be a special case, if I vandalise a military base, that should be treated no differently to vandalising a fence, unless national secrets were compromised (a whole new can of worms).

I do believe that our imperial history is something to be proud of but education, like you said, should give the facts and allow debate on the subject, it should go into the good sides of Empire, for Britain and the world not go on and on about slavery and how the bad white man subjagated the poor natives.

Selected facts? I think first and second hand evidence from all concerned, victims and victors alike, with debates on either side should form the basis of humanities education. I am fortunate in having benefited from such an approach.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Derekrage

That is part of the reason why I left the BNP, however as I said before to say that all members of the BNP are like this is not true.

Uh-huh. So, despite not being nasty racist types, they're willing to overlook the fact that their leaders and policy-makers are?

Those BNP conferences must be great. "Baaaa-aaaaa! Baaaa-aaaaa! Baaaaa-aaaaaa!" So are they callously indifferent, evil or just plain ****ing stupid?

[josefstalin]

@ lazarus

it is not the government who are DIRECTLY responsible for this decline in society, but it is the New Labour types who inforce it and the Government who fail to do anything to condemn the farce

[Derekrage]

I am a writer, and a pacifist at that, so supposing my views caused a major impedence (through no illegal actions) of my own, would I still be forbidden? I don't think the military should be a special case, if I vandalise a military base, that should be treated no differently to vandalising a fence, unless national secrets were compromised (a whole new can of worms).

If by vandalising a military base you are putting our soldiers lives at risked then you should be given a much harsher sentence, if not then you should just be charged with vandalism and maybe trespassing on military property.

And a pacifist? Then we are from the opposite sides of the fence. My job was war.

[Sandman]

Oh, and screw 'oaths of loyalty'. No way Britain should have to put up with fascist crap like that.

Ditto for flags in classrooms.

[Whaleboy]

That explains a few things. You don't want the best for this isle do you?

Strawman. I want what's best for all, including this nation, and I do not differentiate. I do not want something that is intrinsically bad for this nation. That expresses itself in my belief that war is not the answer, but it also manifests itself in tolerance of all nations, and a view that Britain is not somehow better than other nations or cultures.

It's incorrect to think of it in that way, especially with regards housing.

Thinking of land regarding housing is probably the best way to do it, unless you want a return to the '50s .

Oh wait....

I don't see the consistency in your position Whaleboy. First you say you don't understand patriotism/nationalism - then you go on to say immigration is best for our country so we should have more of it!

I understand it, hence I disapprove. Believe it or not I used to be a conservative (then I found love ). Immigration is best for this country, but I don't see how being non-patriotic means being against your country. Perhaps you could explain my error.

Own up - are you a flag waver or not? If you are, then well , but if not, why the hell are you advocating immigration in order to aid our country? You don't care about the state of it after all, do you?

Retract your strawman .

[Solly]

Fine, no oath of loyalty, no welfare or support for you. If you don't want to give to this country and its people, why should you expect to take?

[Derekrage]

Uh-huh. So, despite not being nasty racist types, they're willing to overlook the fact that their leaders and policy-makers are?

Lazarus, does it matter? I know many labour supporters who consider Blair a war criminal yet they will still vote labour in the next election. It is important to understand that these people believe in what they are doing they are willing to go through social isolation and discrimation because of their political beliefs. They are idelogues and nationalists they think that the BNP's policies are best for Britain, they are not simply out to 'get rid of all the foreigners'.

[Solly]

"Immigration is best for this country"

But you aren't a patriot so why do you even care?

(There is substantial evidence that immigration to developed countries harms the country back home more than it helps us. Brain drain (and hence decreased investment in education*), etc, dragging developing nations' incomes lower than they would otherwise have been.)

* Why invest in education if your workers piss off to developed nations.

In fact, if your aim is to sincerely want the best for developing nations and their people, your best policy would be to ban immigration. There would be a greater incentive for the developing nation to educate its people (they won't piss off as soon as the investment has been made), and it would retain its workers of prime age.

Whaleboy, you are not a dumb lad so use that "intellect" to see other people's points too. I agree that immigration poses some advantages but you have to agree too that there is limit - let's call it X - where immigration ceases to become beneficial. Just because my X is lower than yours, does not make me a racist or whatever. I just don't think we need more immigrants. A more flexible domestic labour force would be a first best policy.

[Whaleboy]

And a pacifist? Then we are from the opposite sides of the fence. My job was war.

It seems we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I respect your ability to make your points but I cant see this debate going anywhere useful. What was your job exactly?

[Derekrage]

It seems we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I respect your ability to make your points but I cant see this debate going anywhere useful. What was your job exactly?

I agree to disagree, I'm off to bed now anyway. As to what I did I was a soldier with 1 Para (The Parachute Regiment - 1st Battalion) I served in Sierra Leone then Northern Ireland anyway I rspect the fact that you attacked the BNP's policies and not simply throw insults them

[Sandman]

Fine, no oath of loyalty, no welfare or support for you. If you don't want to give to this country and its people, why should you expect to take?

Paying taxes is enough. Oaths reek of nationalism and militarism. It's like some sort of baptism, a meaningless gesture of 'belongness' that'll be as alienating as it is useless.

I'm happy to be loyal to the state. The nation, on the other hand, can go and hang itself.

[Whaleboy]

But you aren't a patriot so why do you even care?

See above.

In fact, if your aim is to sincerely want the best for developing nations and their people, your best policy would be to ban immigration. There would be a greater incentive for the developing nation to educate its people (they won't piss off as soon as the investment has been made), and it would retain its workers of prime age.

I somehow doubt the welfare of the third world is your motivation . Nonetheless, it's not the entire third world on our doorstep, you'll tell us all how they are immigrants of a few specific sources .

Whaleboy, you are not a dumb lad so use that "intellect" to see other people's points too. I agree that immigration poses some advantages but you have to agree too that there is limit - let's call it X - where immigration ceases to become beneficial.

I do agree and I respect the fact that you have an opinion, and I take it on board and understand it, it's just that I don't agree with it. I see a debate as more of a joust than a search for the holy grail. As for your point, yes I do agree that point exists but I don't think reaching that point is close at hand, and I did not call you a racist in so many words .

[Whaleboy]

I rspect the fact that you attacked the BNP's policies and not simply throw insults them

Thanks! I don't think either side firing ad hominems at each other is going to do anything, except negate the right of each side to be taken seriously. The BNP do have an argument that I feel hasn't been addressed, as people, many of whom with the capacity to engage in a constructive debate are too quick to fling insults, which, all joking aside, does no-one any good.

An impressive tour of duty