Does poverty cause crime?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


Is there only one reason why results might be withheld- suppression of THE TRUTH!

What if they just thought the stats were crap, like I do?

Fair enough. Neither of us know.

They're being manipulated, misused and misunderstood by arseholes on both sides of the debate, Cal. You've just had demonstrated to you that your initial cast-iron certainty about the stats in that article might not be as reliable as you thought. Still happy about using it to "scientifically" prop up your race theories?

If you have any other sets of stats, feel free to bring them on. I love ripping those bunnies to shreds.

My initial cast-iron certainty? I presented the article to you as a possible instance in which one racial group committed more crimes than the other, not as the Gospel of Truth according to the New York Post. Revel in your feeling of "victory" if you must.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


No I don't. I think you'd probably get a difference amounting to probably a smidgen of a fraction of a percentage point, and that smidgen of a fraction of a percentage point would immediately be pounced on by ****wits with an agenda from whichever side of the debate they choose to plague.

By the way...what reason do you have for believing this? Do you have any evidence at all that the difference in criminality between races would be so miniscule? Or is this just a hunch you have?

In the end you're almost the same as me Laz. For whatever reason you think different races commit crimes at pretty much the same rate. I for whatever reason think there would be differences. The only difference is that you think your position is somehow morally superior and that anyone who thinks differently must be a ****wit.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Lorizael
What about crimes other than murder? Murder is much less likely to happen in an affluent suburb than in an inner-city ghetto.

Mosty related to drugs.

Originally posted by Lorizael
Why is violent crime more prevalent in poorer areas?

Less police coverage. Higher population density.

Originally posted by Lorizael
Very few rich people go around commiting murder and rape.

Because there are very few rich people.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Caligastia
In the end you're almost the same as me Laz. For whatever reason you think different races commit crimes at pretty much the same rate. I for whatever reason think there would be differences. The only difference is that you think your position is somehow morally superior and that anyone who thinks differently must be a ****wit.

That's a gross over-simplification, Cal.

I think some of them are ****wits. Others of them are gullible. A sector might be naive. Others are evil.

I am not about to make any apologies for that. You're quite right- I do feel morally and/or intellectually superior to people holding such views. What's more, I'm entirely comfortable with anyone else knowing that and the ramifications extending from it.

I feel absolutely no guilt or hurt about any of the consequences of any single view I have ever expressed on the subject of racism and race relations on the internet. That's where we differ.

[*End Is Forever*]

I can catagorically confirm that PA never drank alcohol underage in a pub. Furthermore, rumours that he was carried from a pub unconcious - and with his trousers down - on his 17th birthday are utterly fictitious. As a final note, there is no truth whatsoever in any suggestions that PA once obtained a small amount of weed, only to fry it in vegetable oil and mix it with cherry yoghurt before consuming.

Just so you know.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Lorizael
It's a theory, Laz.

A theory without supporting evidence is not a theory. It's a "hypotheis," or a "conjecture," or an "assumption," or "hunch," or a "wild guess," depending on the vocabulary of the person making it. The problem here being that, apart from some statistics thrown around about speeding (anybody have any statistics as to how many people living in poverty own a car?), there's been no evidence posted here to support your wild guess that poverty leads to crime. In fact, Che claims that poverty has minimal effect on crime, which is the exact opposite of what he should be saying if he's just inventing any old bull**** to support his political agenda.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by loinburger

A theory without supporting evidence is not a theory. It's a "hypotheis," or a "conjecture," or an "assumption," or "hunch," or a "wild guess," depending on the vocabulary of the person making it. The problem here being that, apart from some statistics thrown around about speeding (anybody have any statistics as to how many people living in poverty own a car?), there's been no evidence posted here to support your wild guess that poverty leads to crime. In fact, Che claims that poverty has minimal effect on crime, which is the exact opposite of what he should be saying if he's just inventing any old bull**** to support his political agenda.

Hey, don't call it my theory. I didn't come up with it. Uh, you're right, though, I haven't posted any evidence here to support that claim. But... there is more crime in poorer areas. That's fairly well known. Laz says he won't believe any crime statistics, but I think it's extremely cynical and careless to simply throw away all of them as being inaccurate or biased or wrong.

I wonder if Che'll stop being a commie now.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Lorizael

But... there is more crime in poorer areas. That's fairly well known.

Is it?

I don't know it for a certainty.

How many 'poor' people can be bothered reporting certain crimes?

How many crimes happen in areas of wealth where people aren't assuming such crimes will happen?

Are you including white collar crimes?

The C.E.O. with a coke habit, or who entertains call girls or male prostitutes?

Insurance fraud?

Possession or creation of child pornography?

Certain crimes will be better or more widely reported in the media- influencing what is allegedly 'well known' and what isn't.

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
...there is no truth whatsoever in any suggestions that PA once obtained a small amount of weed, only to fry it in vegetable oil and mix it with cherry yoghurt before consuming.

Just so you know.

why did he not just have a chuff like the rest of us

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Is it?

I don't know it for a certainty.

How many 'poor' people can be bothered reporting certain crimes?

How many crimes happen in areas of wealth where people aren't assuming such crimes will happen?

Are you including white collar crimes?

The C.E.O. with a coke habit, or who entertains call girls or male prostitutes?

Insurance fraud?

Possession or creation of child pornography?

Certain crimes will be better or more widely reported in the media- influencing what is allegedly 'well known' and what isn't.

There are far more petty crimes that take place in poorer areas. The crimes are easier to get away with, or more necessary, or more profitable.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Lorizael

There are far more petty crimes that take place in poorer areas. The crimes are easier to get away with, or more necessary, or more profitable.

I'll be waiting for your figures to back that up with interest. Then I'll happily punch holes in them. The circle repeats.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Why is it cynical to be critical of crime statistics anyway? Isn't it far more cynical to place value in something which is so fundamentally flawed and vulnerable to skewing factors, and then use it as a means to prop up a socio-political agenda?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
poverty is relative as "wealth" is a relative term.

Define crime. Is it a crime to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family?

Yes, because theft is, by definition, illegal. If there wasn't a law against taking things through force, you couldn't commit theft.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
There's a study in a recent issue of Scientific American which shows that crime is only partially linked to poverty. The biggest factor in the rise and fall of crime in the 80s and 90s was the emergence and then lessening demand for crack cocaine. Almost every other fact, death penalty, tougher sentencing, more cops, demographics, economics, etc. had minor negligable effects on overall crime rates.

I read that, it was a good article (though the drug theory, like all of them, had it's problems, as was pointed out by the author)

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
I can catagorically confirm that PA never drank alcohol underage in a pub. Furthermore, rumours that he was carried from a pub unconcious - and with his trousers down - on his 17th birthday are utterly fictitious. As a final note, there is no truth whatsoever in any suggestions that PA once obtained a small amount of weed, only to fry it in vegetable oil and mix it with cherry yoghurt before consuming.

Just so you know.

Vegetable oil and cherry yogurt? Holy hell, just bake brownies like everyone else.

So what was that about not breaking any laws again, PA?