So You're a Socialist...

[Space05us]

Write an essay telling me what socialism is, or give me a link to a good website that gives an in depth explination.
I ask because the only things I can tell you about socialism is that I grew up with my parents telling me "its good in theory but bad in practice" and that its a political ideology that tries to put everyone in the same standard of living (which is porbably wrong, right?). My dad also said/says Communists [Russians] are Evil, dont worry I ignored him most of the time.

[yavoon]

socialism is spending other ppl's money

[chequita guevara]

www.sp-usa.org . . . for now

[Kropotkin]

No, I can't write you an essay on socialism. I could write an essay about why even lazy pupils shouldn't base their school-projects on information they find trough the internet.

[Space05us]

I could write an essay about why even lazy pupils shouldn't base their school-projects on information they find trough the internet.

Im not that stupid, when I write something the teachhers know I wrote it. If I didnt the teachers know that I didnt. Besides I havent been to school in a few weeks Im going to get my GED.

I honestly want to know what socialism is.

[Kropotkin]

Sure, I believe you. But really, look it up in a couple of decent encyclopedias at the library or something. This place is crawling with commies and contra-revolutionaries that will feed you brain with lies and propaganda.

[lord of the mark]

socialism is when you are so lazy, and so much want to leech off other people, that you post to the internet asking for an essay rather than doing your own research for a school topic.

That said a few pointers. "socialist" has been used by many people to mean different things, including by self proclaimed socialists, and they have disagreed with each other, sometimes at the point of a gun. So ANY definition of socialism youre likely to get here is almost certainly wrong.

Lots of people consider Marxism=Socialism. However even Marx himself recognized that there were other less "scientific" forms of socialism.

People will trip over themselves trying to distinguish socialism from Communism. Confusing cause Marx wrote the "communist" manifesto, and called his movement Communist. But for about 60 years after that most Marxists called themselves simply socialists. "Communist " label was revived by Lenin and his followers.

social democrats shade into "working class oriented liberals" More confusion, also different use of terms between US and Europe. and different European countries.

Read Marx, esp Communist Mandifesto. IIRC he lists the differences among different socialist groups of the time.

Read Daniel Bell, "Marxian Socialism in the United States"

Dont trust everything would be "experts" here tell you.

and dont ignore youre dad, theyre founts of wisdom.

[Kropotkin]

... or if you really want some easy reference, why not start with something like wikipedia.

Socialism

I can't garantee you that the information isn't without faults. But it's probably a easy way to start.

[Space05us]

and dont ignore youre dad, theyre founts of wisdom.

I dont ignore him entirely, he taught me how to hunt and fish and all that stuff. But he's a blind follower of the Republican Party, and when I say blind I mean blind.
If Bush were to announce that all citizens had to wear pink socks my dad would be the first person in line to buy a pair, and if you asked him if it didnt seem a bit queer he would denounce you as a traitor.

[chequita guevara]

Socialism is the name of a number of different but slightly related ideologies. What they all have in common is a belief that capitalism is harmful to the poor, and that the poor would be better served by a system of state or publically owned production, transportation, etc.

Most competing socialisms were swept aside with the success of Marxism, though Fabian socialism is still a major competitor. The Labour Party of Great Britain was/is a Fabian socialist party.

Marxism, aka, scientific socialism, was an attempt to put socialism on a scientific base. All other socialism are based on utopianism, i.e., wouldn't it be nice if the world was like this. Instead Marx applied the scientific method to history and economics, and tried to understand the evolution of human society. What are the forces that would push society to change? Then he explained a little what a future society might look like, while trying to avoid making absolute predictions.

Socialism is a movement based on the ideologies. Anarchists, communists, and social democrats are all types of socialists. The main differences between the groups is the method by which socialism is achieved and how far society should go. Social democrats, aka Socialists, believe that socialism can be voted into existence and that tightly regulated capitalism is good enough. Communists believe that a revolution is necessary to achieve socialism (but it doesn't necessarily have to be violent), and that a workers state needs to be created in order to defend against reactionary forces. Anarchists believe we can skip creating a state.

[chequita guevara]

The Wikipedia article is okay, and LotM is correct also.

[Kropotkin]

Well, if cg says the wikipedia article is okey, it might be a good idea to avoid it!

No, really, I read parts of it and it seemed to be quite decent.

[lord of the mark]

"Social democrats, aka Socialists, believe that socialism can be voted into existence and that tightly regulated capitalism is good enough"


see its even more complicated than that. There are folks who think socialism can be voted into existence, but that regulated capitalism IS NOT enough, large elements of production need to be publicly or cooperatively owned, if not everything. Some such people are Marxists, but the Fabian socialists Guevera mentioned also fall in this category. There are other people who thing that capitalism with regulation, and a welfare state, and a strong role for organized labor, is enough. I tend to call the former group democratic socialists and the latter group social democrats, but that only reflect the time and place of my political upbringing (USA, NY, 1970's, some contact with fringes of SDUSA) In Germany in the '20's the Social Democrats were mainly Marxists. And the UK Labour party includes lots of folks who are not Marxists, but ARE democratic Socialists by my def, who call themselves Social Democrats.

To some degree Social Democrat overlaps with contemporary usage of liberal. I see the key differences as a greater concern of SD's with economic issues and with issues of distribution and class. Also a greater tendency for SD's to be concerned with working class politics, while "liberals" are more content with an upper middle class movement. And SD's are more willing to explicitly use class analysis and language, while "liberals" prefer class neutral "progressive" language, or populist language.

[OzzyKP]

SOCIALIST

You have two cows.
The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor.
You form a cooperative to tell him how to manage his cow.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
see its even more complicated than that.

Well if you go into detail, yeah, you're gonna make my desription look inadequate.