I am a liar and a demagogue

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Spiffor

And the capitalists are currently winning the fight in destroying these great progresses

Yes. 1960-1990 was the golden age of the middle class.

[Imran Siddiqui]

capitalism hasn't won really. Just look at all this social state we're having. free health, free education (in theory). that's all socialist conquests.

Still got a market economy. You still buy and sell goods based on supply and demand .

When it comes to create a wolfpack, wolves are great.

Indeed!

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

capitalism hasn't won really. Just look at all this social state we're having. free health, free education (in theory). that's all socialist conquests.

Still got a market economy. You still buy and sell goods based on supply and demand .

And that's wrong because? Coupled with free education and free health a robust social state and not being the slaves of free markets it's the best system IMO. Using free markets, not letting them use you

[Bereta_Eder]

Besides it's not only based in crude supply and demand. There's lots of regulations for the best interests of the wide society.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Still got a market economy. You still buy and sell goods based on supply and demand .

Capitalism has pretty much won. If you take a global perspective, spawning from 1600 to 2000, the pattern is clear. The next superpower, China, still follows the path: capitalism will bring her to the forefront.

The social-democracies are likely to disappear, and will likely be mere bumps in history, candies invented by the elite.

[Bereta_Eder]

Seeing as the social state is the defining aspect of Europe and has been so for half a century I doubt it will be just a bump. Of course as Spiffor said, we must keep on fighting! Nothing's for free

[Imran Siddiqui]

And that's wrong because? Coupled with free education and free health a robust social state and not being the slaves of free markets it's the best system IMO. Using free markets, not letting them use you

Not saying it's wrong. I'm saying that your economies are MORE capitalist than they are socialist. Even a place like Sweden, you can say that. There isn't a country out there that doesn't have some form of capitalism.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

And that's wrong because? Coupled with free education and free health a robust social state and not being the slaves of free markets it's the best system IMO. Using free markets, not letting them use you

Not saying it's wrong. I'm saying that your economies are MORE capitalist than they are socialist. Even a place like Sweden, you can say that. There isn't a country out there that doesn't have some form of capitalism.

yeah but universal health care, free education for all, social welfare are socialist ideals and thus socialist conquests. so it's more of a regulated capitalism.

[Az]

There isn't a country out there that doesn't have some form of capitalism.

Define capitalism.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Capitalism has pretty much won.

For now.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I'm saying that your economies are MORE capitalist than they are socialist. Even a place like Sweden, you can say that. There isn't a country out there that doesn't have some form of capitalism.

Imran sounds like an ultra-Trot here. He's also right.

[Spiffor]

Isn't Mongolia still a socialist economy?

[chequita guevara]

Nope. They went market some time ago. Maybe North Korea, but who knows with that place. It's the land reality forgot.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Imran sounds like an ultra-Trot here. He's also right.

As in Trotskyist?

Can I have a beret, comrade .

yeah but universal health care, free education for all, social welfare are socialist ideals and thus socialist conquests. so it's more of a regulated capitalism.

Doesn't change my point.

[Spiffor]

And indeed, Imran is right in saying current economies are capitalist. Even the Scandinavian social-democracies are capitalist countries that acknowledge the private ownership of the means of production.

The idea behind social democracy is to make capitalism livable. The idea behind socialism is to get rid of capitalism. Paik advocates a social democracy, which is something nice already. But it is not exactly socialist, even if "Socialist" parties tend to be social-democratic.