Animal Rights and Abortion

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
Templar, that's stupid.

Glad to see all that money you're spending on your education has paid off. That's quite an argument you got there

This is food we are talking about. And you have no right to tell me what to eat or not.

All I said is that the length of time a practice has been going on has little to nothing to do with its morality.

BTW, try buying some psychoative mushrooms to eat. If you get busted, tell the cops that they have no right to tell you what to eat. Hell, just eat a baby on the street and watch what happens. We're not the boss of you!

Ooops! Looks like you made another overly broad generalization ...

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
Templar, that's stupid. This is food we are talking about. And you have no right to tell me what to eat or not.

Do you eat babies?

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Do you eat babies?

Beat you to it! [nelson laugh]

[Imran Siddiqui]

If Dworkin believes in intrinsic rights, where does he believe these rights originate from?

Well, its kind of complicated, but he believes that is a combination of personal morality, social morality, and absolute morality (background morality) AND institutional morality (judgment made by institutional rules).

Many liberals believe in an absolute morality divorced from God by basically saying that humanity is special because of our ability to reason and thus it should be protected. Remember, in the US, most of the people against the death penalty for moral reasons are not doing it for religious moral reasons, but rather do not believe in God.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

If Dworkin believes in intrinsic rights, where does he believe these rights originate from?

Well, its kind of complicated

That's an understatement ...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, I know. It's kinda difficult to capture Dworkin in small post (another understatement).

[David Floyd]

Conservatives see rights as existing from outside society,

Well, in that case, stop taking my money for "defense", and stop telling gays what they can and can't do together.

Come on, BK. Conservatives don't believe that any more than liberals do. I believe it, but you don't.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I believe it, but you don't.

DUDE! He believes rights exist from God... that's as outside society as you can get!

[Kuciwalker]

BK just believes in different rights

[David Floyd]

DUDE! He believes rights exist from God... that's as outside society as you can get!

Fine, but he doesn't consistently apply them. And besides, his point was about "conservatives" not "Ben Kenobi".

[Imran Siddiqui]

I don't think he'd consider you a Conservative . I think he'd consider Bush and the ilk as 'conservatives'.

And I haven't seen him not consistently applying God's "rights'".

[Rex Little]

Slight nitpick: isn't Andrea Dworkin a "she"?

[Mr. Harley]

My personel definition of right and left wing - each wants to use legislation to impose their version of "right" or "morality" on personal behavior, i.e. those acts that do not directly impact another individual. Of course those people involved then make the claim that the animal or the fertilized ovum has rights that trump the people upon whom the right or left winger is attempting to impose their "approved" behaviors.

The thing I find terribly amusing about both groups is how they cry "foul" when their opposites successfully use the legislative process to impose their agenda on them. BOTH groups have declared that is an acceptable use of the legislative process, so if somebody manages to manipulate it better they throw a temper tantrum without realizing that once you make that use/abuse of legislation and individual rights acceptable, you set the stage for somebody to do it to you (compel you to conform to a behavior you disagree with via force of law and/or threat of imprisonment).

It's why I've become a social libetarian. If you want to state that you will not use a cure for Alzheimers if it involves cloned stem cells using the patient's nuclei and fetal stem cells, go ahead. Similarly, if you don't want to use drugs that were tested using animals, fine. Just don't try to pass laws shoving YOUR choice down my throat. It's also amusing, many of those who are most strident suddenly take a different view if it's their loved one; parent, spouse, or child. It's why I respect Christian Scientists. They are willing to die for their beliefs. I think they're crazy, but I still respect them. I find in general very few of those who want to use legislation to cram their values down my throat having the same level of dedication and commitment.

[MrFun]

Re: Animal Rights and Abortion

Originally posted by OzzyKP
I think they should work together.

Are you nuts!?

The world is ****ed up as it is.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by The Templar


Glad to see all that money you're spending on your education has paid off. That's quite an argument you got there



All I said is that the length of time a practice has been going on has little to nothing to do with its morality.

BTW, try buying some psychoative mushrooms to eat. If you get busted, tell the cops that they have no right to tell you what to eat. Hell, just eat a baby on the street and watch what happens. We're not the boss of you!

Ooops! Looks like you made another overly broad generalization ...

You vegans are an illogical bunch of people. I eat meat. I like steak. I like pork. No psycho-commie like you is going to stop me from eating it. You are blowing things out of proportion. I am not listening to some psychological piece of work.