LoTR coronation and other moments

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit


Sci-fi and comedy are traditional Oscar Poison genres.

IMHO the first Star Wars is the only one in the series that broke new ground. Reliance on special effects and mediocre (at best) acting pretty much doomed the franchise to be ghettoized into the technical categories.

I (apparently) incorrectly remembered Imran as a Star Wars fan. He's apparently bitter about Harry Potter instead...

/me chuckles

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Bill Murray does not seem like one of those egotistical actors who try to tell a director what to do. I think that he would have treated Coppola with respect.

The fact that she has only done one other movie doesn't mean she is inexperienced. She clearly had a vision of what she wanted to create. She also would have naturally picked up directoring tips from being around her father. So she may well know a lot more about directing than other "experienced" directors.

Also, directing is a lot more than just knowing what should be said on film. It's about managing the process, bringing the best out of everyone and getting everyone moving towards the same goal (something that is easier said than done).

This discussion of LIT misses the point. I don't question Sofia Coppola's direction. I think it was strong.

The point:
The Oscar she got was for original screenplay. Given the there was a significant amount of improv to the script, I question whether she deserved that award.

Discuss.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
DD isn't any more the purveyor of the Academy's intent behind something than you are.

If we are going to use that as a standard of proof, why do you expect us to take you seriously? I'm not stating this for a fact but given how the series had been overlooked by the Oscars in the past the sweep feels like them trying to make up for that.

[JohnT]

How much was the film improv'ed? Cite?

Regardless, she might not have written the absolute greatest screenplay of the year but she do all the other things involved in putting a successful Sophia Coppola film together, from directing to producing to strong casting to not acting herself( ). You gotta give her something.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
If we are going to use that as a standard of proof, why do you expect us to take you seriously? I'm not stating this for a fact but given how the series had been overlooked by the Oscars in the past the sweep feels like them trying to make up for that.

I don't expect you to do anything, save possibly back up your points with some valid points.

Hint... reverse logic and "feelings" are less valid than the reasonable logic of the massive majority... *gasp*... thinking ROTK was great... in those categories.

There is certainly firm evidence that a huge swath of movie people thought this was great work, that had no need to reward "due"ness... I.E. the critic associations.

[DinoDoc]

Yes and there is a great deal of evidence that Fellowship should have won when it was up for Best Picture. That's why ROTK's win stinks of "due"ness now.

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by JohnT
Regardless, she might not have written the absolute greatest screenplay of the year but she do all the other things... from directing to producing to strong casting to not acting herself( ).

You gotta give her something.

No, I don't.

So you're saying that this Oscar win is based on factors other than writing, and you're OK with that.

The award is for Original Screenplay. If the actors did a lot of the writing, how can she possibly deserve it??

I think she got it because of who her daddy is.

[JohnT]

"Evidence"? What is this, the Kennedy assassination? The Skull and Bones society?

DinoDoc, the reason that it smacks of "dueness" is because you are absolutely correct: The voters held off on the first two movies to see if he could maintain the pace for all three. "A Beautiful Mind" smacked of "dueness" as well, a reward for a well-liked and respected Ron Howard, who has earned well over $1 billion in worldwide box office receipts. "Gladiator" smacked of dueness as a nod to Dreamworks SKG and a mollified "we're sorry for the Shakespeare-in-Love fiasco, we still love you Stevie" award to Spielberg.

[GePap]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Yes and there is a great deal of evidence that Fellowship should have won when it was up for Best Picture. That's why ROTK's win stinks of "due"ness now.

Lets imagine FOTR had won, and also ROTK -which got a critical reception worthy of a winner anyway. After all, FOTR got 12 nods, ROTK got 11 nods, but TTT got only 6 and did not do that well....

Would it be fair what is essentially one single project released in 3 installments to win 2 best movie Oscars? Wouldn't that be like having a miniseries on TV win multipe Emmy's for different episodes, the one on monday, the one on tuesday- instead of getting one.

The fact is that LoTR was a brand new enterprise-3 movies filmed at once. Unless this becomes a common thing and we get an Oscar for "best movie series", you will have what you got this year, which is one incredible multiyear project gettingh and award and unfortunitelly perhaps running over one year projects which had to compete.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit


No, I don't.

So you're saying that this Oscar win is based on factors other than writing, and you're OK with that.

The award is for Original Screenplay. If the actors did a lot of the writing, how can she possibly deserve it??

I think she got it because of who her daddy is.

You're totally missing the point.

The Academy Awards is a ceremony presented every year by people in the film industry for people in the film industry. The ballots are given only to people in the industry, and only people in the industry get to perform or attend the Oscars. This is a close-knit professional community with most of them living in one of two worlds: LA or NYC (mostly LA). They all have professional, financial, sexual, marital, contractual, and other ties to one another, many of these ties lasting only for the life of the production. The thing is, the Academy isn't a group of insiders in a room somewhere arguing it out, they're a community of about 5,000 people living in the Los Angeles basin who receive these ballots at their home or office.

So the ballots go out. The people get them, they meet at work. What do you think they're going to talk about? When they read that morning's Variety and see 12 pages of ads congratulating various nominees, do you not think it has an effect? Harvey Weinstein throws a few parties with a bunch of lavish gifts, and all of a sudden Private Spielberg is halted halfway out of his chair, stunned and puzzled...that's not my films name. And when people vote, they vote not on technical merit (that's what the nominations are for) but on a host of factors, including:

Who is sleeping with whom?
What film made a lot of people very comfortable or rich?
Who hasn't received one of these?
Who do I not want to offend?
What meds were I on when I filled out the ballot?

And that's the thing about the Academy Awards that frustrates a lot of people: they're not about well-defined artistic achievements, they're more about the Los Angeles film community congratulating itself.

Did Sophia Coppola get a lot of good press because the fact that her dad is Francis Ford Coppola, the director of the Godfather movies, the Conversation, Apocalypse Now? Well, duh! Did a lot of voters get tilted by remembering that she was the baby being baptized in Godfather 1? Probably. Did she get a few "redemption" votes for Godfather 3? More than likely.

Is any of this a reason to give her an artistic award? No.

Is it a reason to give her an Academy Award? Yes.

[-Jrabbit]

Pretty funny, John.

1. I couldn't miss the point. Having started the Sofia sub-thread, it was my point. I was suggesting that the award was not based on the merits of her writing. You agreed.

2. I wrote basically the same lecture about the nature of voting for the Grammies. I also wrote an adjunct rant (concerning the voting advantages of big productions) for this thread.

I'm well aware of how it works, and I wasn't surprised that she won (predicted it in the Oscar voting thread).

I was really only trying to find out which other screenplays were truly deserving. No one has filled in that blank...

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
*SNIP*
I was really only trying to find out which other screenplays were truly deserving. No one has filled in that blank...

OK...

Finding Nemo. Absolutely top notch screenplay... led to tremendous box office run, and massive adulation. Its subject matter and form are looked down upon as low brow however. I think that it was certainly deserving, and could understand the argument that this should win.

In America. A good screenplay, although with a much more narrow focus, and nostalgic twist, than the others. I liked the sentiment of the screenplay, if not all of the implementation.

Barbarian Invasions... I didn't see it but discussed the film at some length, with my brother-in-law. We came to the conclusion that it "tries too hard" to be this profound story, and comes off looking contrived.

Dirty Pretty Things... one of my favorite truly original thrillers... taut, funny and multilayered. If I were in sole charge of the award, this would be my choice... well... this or Finding Nemo... but I would probably have last minute second thoughts about Finding Nemo...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by paiktis22
The coronation of the LOTM is one more proof that the oscars have went hilariously but also sadly downhill... .

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Agathon
Imran is just pissed because his love, Harry Potter, didn't win any awards.

Imagine that, a grown man reading children's books.

I know lots of adults who read Harry Potter. It aint Tolstoy, but its a wonderful set of books with lots of wit, great charecterization, and some really moving things about love, loyalty, depression, etc.

The films thus far have tended toward the mediocre however. Emphasizes once again that filming a popular set of books, with a big budget and good actors, is NO guarantee of making great movies.

[GePap]

Congrats to LOTM for his Oscar win-

how was the afterparty?