Want to get rid of the popups??

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Wanna get rid of popups? get safari. oh wait, thats only for apple, the company who makes shoddy products.

[PLATO]

From the faq:

We were a bit reluctant to say it in this past, but this a privately owned forum, not a public square. It is our right to accept or not accept certain kind of discussion or certain kind of users. We will be seting the rules and enforce them as we see fit. We believe in freedom of speech, but again, this is not a public square(there are laws that apply to public squares too, but that's another issue ). We hope that you understand our position

Whaleboy post on Jan. 30, 2004:

I'm curious, by using software like Mozilla or Mozilla Firebird, am I abusing the fine service of Apolyton because I set it to block popups?

Mark's reply:

Yeap

cause unlike other visitors, you are using the site without creating any income towards paying the bills which creates a cost that has to be paied by the other visitors...

Whaleboy Feb. 04, 2004

...I could find and nowhere could I find as a condition of using this site that I must use software to access that does not have pop-up blockers, or not have pop-up blockers enabled etc. Perhaps you could point me to a URL I missed?...
But yeah, if I'm wrong and there is a condition of use here that I must view the pop-ups, then please show me and I will cease use.

Mark's reply:

if you need something like that to be in the official user policy, we'll be adding that specifically.

until then, i hope you comply with our wishes without having a contract in your hands...

@ Whaleboy's argument due to fact it has been answered.

[PLATO]

Furthermore...

Directly from MarkG on Feb. 5, 2004:

We have stated lots of times that using pop-up blockers is harming Apolyton. However we have not yet penalized anyone for doing such a thing. And yes, we can implement systems to even block these users.

Now if you want to hear it in an official tone, as of now, not using pop-up blockers is part of the user policy that you agree to by browsing our site.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

. .. which is exaclty why i turn off safari's pop up blocker when i access apolyton's site.

[Seeker]

When do we have to register and how much is it?

Ain't too rich these days...

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Not my concern. Only that it wont be done using underhand tactics and my bandwidth.

what about your tactics and our bandwidth?
using ad-blockers means that you use our site resources(cpu, bandwidth, hard disk) without generating any income towards paying for these resources
explain to me how this is right

Other forums of which I am a member (Ektopos.com and politicsforum.org (I am BenElijah on both)) do not have pop-ups or the like. See how they finance.

one site has a forum with 223 posts and 51 registrations and another has 110k posts and 1387 registrations. compare the numbers with ours (2.6mil posts, 49k regs) and tell me if i really should look into their financing sollution

[MarkG]

You use the internet all the time without contributing.

you do contribute, by paying to your ISP who pays for the use of infrastructure, etc

or are you not paying for net access either?

[PLATO]

Originally posted by MarkG

Other forums of which I am a member (Ektopos.com and politicsforum.org (I am BenElijah on both)) do not have pop-ups or the like. See how they finance.

one site has a forum with 223 posts and 51 registrations and another has 110k posts and 1387 registrations. compare the numbers with ours (2.6mil posts, 49k regs) and tell me if i really should look into their financing sollution

What's that? 26,000 times their size?

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
Sell a licence plate frame that says "My words are backed with nuclear weapons" not "My words are backed with nuclear power"

That's why there is a 'custom' section. Most products can be custom-designed. If contact Markos and ask him if you can have a different text on the license plate, he can probably arrange that for you.

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Other forums of which I am a member (Ektopos.com and politicsforum.org (I am BenElijah on both)) do not have pop-ups or the like. See how they finance.

They're very small forums who can get by with very small servers. They might even be running on a private server located in the webmaster's garage. If Apolyton ran on a similar server, it would have a 99.5% downtime rather than uptime.

Its a recognised piece of technology that is regarded by IT people as a useful tool, recommended for use on the internet by people like you and me.

What's also a recognized options of technology that is regarded by IT people as a useful tool, is the ability to disable and enable your pop-up blocker on a site-by-site basis. If Apolyton requires that you accept pop-ups here, it should be no problem for you to set that up without making major alterations to your configuration. Pretty much the same thing as that when you enter someone else's home, the owner may request that you take off your shoes. Surely that's not unreasonable?

Actually it's pretty much loathed accross the IT industry.

Actually, it's not. It's loathed by Internet users who are enjoying the free ride too much to think about who's paying the bills. The IT industry recognizes it as an essential tool for both building and financing websites.

"Well whatever the rights and wrongs, that is the law"

Your telling me to obey the rules with spurious reasoning, as is the state with regards to cannabis.

We're not talking about the law here, we're talking about common courtesy and about who pays the bill.

If you come to my house and I ask you to take off your shoes while inside and to sit in the seat that I designate to you, surely it's not unreasonable of me to ask that? Fighting the government because you don't agree with what they're doing with your tax money, and breaking the house rules of a private individual in his own place where you are a voluntary guest, are two very different things. And Apolyton is a privately owned site where you are a voluntary guest, not a government institution.

Also, if I would life next door to you and tap your power, would you be happy to pay for my electrity?

You use the internet all the time without contributing. Is that unreasonable?

No you're not, and yes it is. You pay your ISP, don't you? And you pay taxes? And you receive various forms of online advertising (from banners to pop-ups to email spam)? And you buy products from companies who have websites? The Internet costs a lot of money, and everyone pays their share. Governments and ISPs maintain the backbone intrastructure through taxes, companies invest in their own websites and networks, private websites run ads. Sunlight and fresh air you get for free, everything else in life you have to pay for, one way or the other. If you cop out on your share, somebody else is paying it for you -- in that case I hope you're proud of the fact you're having your free ride at someone else's expense.

Unless you can show as a direct consequence of my actions that people are seeing more pop-ups, I will not accept that view for the simple reason that the actions of one person and his browser are unlikely to impact majorly upon the computers of thousands.

Well, the money Apoyton doesn't get from your blocked pop-ups has to come from somewhere, doesn't it? To compensate for the missed revenue from blocked pop-ups, Apolyton simply has to show more ads to other users.

In fact, Markos has explicitly stated in the past that every popup blocked by one user is shown to another.

Since I don't block pop-ups (at least not on Apolyton), I get more pop-ups that I should be getting because I get part of your share as well. Thank you very much for that.

Originally posted by monkspider
I think that something that some people here have lost sight of is that this is a fan site, not a buisiness, and the primary focus should not be to generate revenue.

I think that something that some people here have lost sight of is that maintaining a site like Apolyton is a very expensive undertaking, and we can't expect Markos and Dan to cough up all that money by themselves, just so we can have our fun here.

[monkspider]

I'm going to resort to the old arguement "I pay for this site when I pay my ISP bill."

But putting that aside, it would be more productive to talk about the kind of extras you would need to have to be willing to fork over dough.

Here is a reasonable start

+No ads
+OT posts give +1
+Custom Titles
+One get out of Mingapulco free card
+One risk-free DL
+Possibly removing the swear filter for Apolyton Plus members (This one might be a bit more iffy though)

[Gatekeeper]

It's best not to boast about your site membership numbers unless you want the Audit Bureau of Circulation to come down and have a look-see at how "real" those numbers are.

Oops. I was in a "newspaper" frame of mind there.

Gatekeeper

[MarkG]

Originally posted by monkspider
"I pay for this site when I pay my ISP bill."

your ISP doesnt pay our bills

+OT posts give +1

not so sure....

+Custom Titles

possible, but would have to
a) retain the right for the administration to not approve a title
b) find some way to not confuse custom titles with the special titles of our "celebrities"(game developers, company people, etc)

+One get out of Mingapulco free card
+One risk-free DL

hmmm no

+Possibly removing the swear filter for Apolyton Plus members (This one might be a bit more iffy though)

but everyone else will still not be allowed to swear, so...

[monkspider]

Where is the harm in having a single DL and having OT posts count? The others I can somewhat understand why you would be hesistant to offer, but if you want us to open up our wallets during these rough economic times Mark, you need to make it worth our while. The larger avatar and PM space mentioned in the other thread is just not going to cut it.

[MarkG]

we've fought DL's for a really long time now. we're not going to sell out now

[Dis]

I will only pay for membership if off-topic posts count towards my post count

edit: I see I'm not the first person to mention this. great minds think alike.