Honoring a great president.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Lincoln was the most abusive of the constitution and separtaion of powers of any president, and closest the USA ever came to dictatorship. He was also faced with the grestest challenges of any president.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

The thing that distinguishes Lincoln is not that he had to be abusive inorder to prosecute the war inorder to retain the union but his stance (were it properly implemented) towards restoration. Once the crisis passed he was all in favor of restoring what was usurped.

Interesting that teh times define the greatness of the presidents.

Were it not for the crisis's faced by FDR, Lincoln, and Washington what would their accomplishment be.

For that reason I rate very highly the actions of Teddy. His actions showed leadership and gave transformation to a more modern for of capitalism. All in all a visionary above corruption, but not above ego.

So for the most part GePap I agree with your ratings of the prez's but would defintely have TR inthe top 5 if not top 3. Having Jefferson 4.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
The thing that distinguishes Lincoln is not that he had to be abusive inorder to prosecute the war inorder to retain the union but his stance (were it properly implemented) towards restoration. Once the crisis passed he was all in favor of restoring what was usurped.

Interesting that teh times define the greatness of the presidents.

Were it not for the crisis's faced by FDR, Lincoln, and Washington what would their accomplishment be.

For that reason I rate very highly the actions of Teddy. His actions showed leadership and gave transformation to a more modern for of capitalism. All in all a visionary above corruption, but not above ego.

So for the most part GePap I agree with your ratings of the prez's but would defintely have TR inthe top 5 if not top 3. Having Jefferson 4.

Restoring what was destroyed? No, he was not in favor of restoring slavery, but yes, he was in favor of a more reconciliable reconstruction than what the radical Republicans enacted after they ended Johnson's policy.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

You knew I meant the instruments of due process and liberty. Further the liberation of the slaves showed that while there was a temporary interruption to civil liberties (of states and individuals) during the war more people benefited from a liberty POV than prior to the prosecution of the war.

The second part describing his more moderate approach to restoration I agree with.

[Shi Huangdi]

I'd point out that Maryland did in fact vote freely to stay in the Union. After the Union threatened to clamp down if Maryland took a vote on secession, the Legislature withdrew from Annapolis to Frederick, outside of the range of Federal troops. The General Assembly took a vote, and secession was voted down.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


You knew I meant the instruments of due process and liberty. Further the liberation of the slaves showed that while there was a temporary interruption to civil liberties (of states and individuals) during the war more people benefited from a liberty POV than prior to the prosecution of the war.

The second part describing his more moderate approach to restoration I agree with.

I'm just making sure.

There's too many whackos here on Apolyton to take even the most common sense positions for granted.

[MrFun]

I tried finding a website that had a collection of Lincoln's yarns and jokes to show his humorous side, but I could not find such a good enough website.

[Verto]

Lincoln was a good president; not all he is made out to be by some, but a good man nonetheless.

[MrFun]

Yeah -- he "only" helped our nation survive through a devastating civil war.

[Imran Siddiqui]

david floyd is hilarious

No, just sad.

Lincoln was a bastard, but Hell, look at what he was dealing with. I'd hope the President would be a bastard when half of the country decided to up and leave!

[Barinthus]

Say what you wish, Abraham Lincoln is one of the greatest presidents ever in the American history, period.

No Such Thing As Failure

"There is no such thing as failure. We learn from every human experience, and thereby always succeed in the achieving the results of that learning."

"Your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other thing."

These are the words of a man:

who failed at business at age 21;
was defeated in a legislative race at age 22;
failed again at business at age 24;
overcame the death of his sweetheart at age 26;
had a nervous breakdown at age 27;
lost a congressional race at age 34;
lost another congressional race at age 36;
lost a senatorial race at age 45;
failed in an effort to become vice-president at age 47;
lost another senatorial race at age 49;
and was elected President of the United States at age 52.

This man was Abraham Lincoln.

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character,
give him power."

Abraham Lincoln, United States President

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Lincoln was a bastard, but Hell, look at what he was dealing with. I'd hope the President would be a bastard when half of the country decided to up and leave!

Why?
If these States decide it (ain't it made possible in your constitution btw?), why should the remaining States try to keep the separatists by force?

[Imran Siddiqui]

If these States decide it (ain't it made possible in your constitution btw?), why should the remaining States try to keep the separatists by force?

Because once you're in, you can't leave. Would you look favorable on Brittany leaving? Then again you are a commie, your answer may not be the one I'm looking for .

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Because once you're in, you can't leave.

OK, I thought it was made possible in your constitution. It's kind of surprising that a country which gives so many rights to the States doesn't give the right to leave.

Would you look favorable on Brittany leaving? Then again you are a commie, your answer may not be the one I'm looking for .

France is a centralistic country which has united under military might. It has a tradition of being "one and undivisible" dating back to the Third Republic, if not the Revolution.

As a result, we are often criticized by other countries for allowing too little leeway to our provinces, for being too authoritative.

But if the great majority of Bretons wanted independence, and showed it in polls, I think I'd agree with that rather than waging a useless war. I thought such an idea was a no-brainer in a fundamentally federal country such as the US.

[Imran Siddiqui]

OK, I thought it was made possible in your constitution. It's kind of surprising that a country which gives so many rights to the States doesn't give the right to leave.

It doesn't say anything about leaving, which some interpreted to say you can. Most of us think it means no, you can't. You give up some sovereignty when you come in, even if some Confederate lover says otherwise .